Originally posted by juu OK, so you don't seem to get the analogy, instead you argue about insignificant details of it. Let me try another one, maybe this will work.
You buy a Canon printer for $300 thinking that cartridges will cost $15, in line with competition. Instead after 3 months Canon increases cartridge prices to $30 making them more expensive than competition. Your total cost of ownership just went up without any benefits to you. How do you feel about Canon's behavior? How likely are you to buy a Canon printer again?
Ok, let's pretend I still don't get the analogy (hint: I'm humoring you now like I was before.)
Since you've decided to use the printer scenario, I have to ask...are you living under a rock? Printer ink is the most expensive liquid commodity out there (hyperbole, perhaps, but look at a 30mL $35 cartridge). Everyone is paying more for ink by the day, yet we still buy buy buy.
Oil was once "Black Gold"...now let's add in magenta, cyan, and yellow
Ever owned an Epson printer? Those can't be refilled by Walgreens for $10 or $15 per.
When was the last time you went to hit print and said "ooooo no, I'd better not. This ink
might go up in price next week."
Both your analogies were bad. In case Underarockville doesn't get the news, Sony sells cheaper camera bodies and charges more for lenses. Cell phone companies. Cable companies.
Anything that lures you in with something cheap which becomes more expensive can be considered "subsidizing." Does Pentax do it? Ehhh, kinda sorta. The bodies are cheaper than the competition but the lenses aren't too bad now that Pentax is charging what the lenses are worth. I am one of those people who will save and buy
what I really want.
They definitely don't "lure" you in with "free printers"..."free phones"..."free DVR for the first 12 months"...Pentax's prices are marked clear as day so you can price your system as you choose. William (Wheatfield) proved this later in the thread.
I completely understand it sucks to pay more for something that was once cheaper. Bolded so that everyone understands I am not living in Underarockville.
Originally posted by newmikey Would it also be that the bigger the logistics cost, the higher the end price to the consumer is? Does the size of the market matter?
Consider that the US is the biggest single market out there, with the option to import camera's and equipment through 1 central hub, no need for specialized adapted advertisements, documentation or warranties?
The EU comes next in line and although it is an open market for duty purposes, the admin involved in getting the VAT correct across 27 different national legislations and VAT registrations (or representations) would be high. Add to that the need to reflect 27 different jurisdictions on sales and warranty transactions and the need to document in over 22 languages and I would suggest that would account for at least a sizable part of the difference.
Finally, on to the UK. It is the UK's express policy to distance itself legislation-wise as much as possible from mainland Europe. A smaller market than either the US or the continental EU, the UK suffers from many issues that would require an importer to consider the UK as a totally separate market. Logistically speaking, supplying goods to the UK is more expensive if done from one main hub due to the Northsea that separates the UK from mainland Europe. If deliveries are directly to the UK and excluded from the main hub, decreased volumes are likely to induce higher logistics costs.
Not saying it accounts for just about anything (f.i. the higher level of government care in Europe also draws higher taxes) but it does go a long way to explaining the differences.
Talking about that...don't you guys in the EU also make more money compared to (most) Americans? I know you have more taxes on pretty much everything and the cost of living is higher.
Somewhat like in America, the cost of living is higher in some places so people make more. A decent apartment here in my city is about $700/month. When I lived in a city with a quarter of the population (50,000), I was paying $450 for a nice place.
Average "starting" salaries here are about $24,000 a year. I know a Californian who "started" at $35k but pays more for everything.
I guess it's relative
Originally posted by Wheatfield Move.
It's that simple.
I just priced locally a Canon 50D at 1199.00
Their 17-55 IS is 1279.00
and their 70-200 2.8 USM is 2049
for a total of 4527.00
Add 600 bucks if you want a 7D instead of a D50.
Switching to Tokina glass will put you in the same price ballpark as Pentax if you buy the 7D and Tokina.
Move over to Pentax and the K7 is 1399.00
the 16-50/2.8 is 1099.00
The 50-135/2.8 is 1199.00
for a total of 3697.00.
Granted you are getting 50 more millimeters from the Canon telezoom for your 830 extra dollars.
Tokina lenses here are quite inexpensive by comparison, the Tokina 12-24 is a little more than half the cost of the Pentax 12-24, the 16-50 Tokina is 2/3 the Pentax 16-50. This doesn't surprise me, Tokina glass has always been comparatively cheap when compared to first manufacture lenses.
Watch out William, here people come trying to refute actual numbers
Originally posted by reeftool Every manufacturer of any product is doing it with the intention of making a profit. No profit, they go under. Pentax has to compete with larger companys with much larger volume. They have to match or at least come close to the big guys in features and quality and keep pace with the ever changing marketplace with new models and have to match or even beat them on price. Pentax is doing what it has to do to survive as a company. Nikon and Canon are competing with each other for dominance in the camera market with the giant electronics company Sony willing to spend billions just to be a player. Somehow Pentax has to compete with this and turn a profit. I'm glad it's not my job.
Some local shops are competing with Walmart, while others have fallen. Let Canon and Nikon fight it out, while Pentax keeps doing its thing. They provide a different "service," if you will, like small places do vs giant chain stores.
Originally posted by Wheatfield Especially not with this userbase
And still some people just can't leave Pentax...hmmm...so it's gotta be something other than prices