Bad News from Turkey

Samsungian · 12-24-2009, 06:49 AM

My 2005 era 5D autofocus dusts my K20D. Lots of people in canon forums whine about 5D's slow autofocus yet its so much better than my Pentax K20D.

Like Javier, I doubt I'll buy another new pentax item. I still like the K20D alot for driving my manual focus glass from the 80's. So I'll continue to own Pentax till the K20D dies.

I don't think one needs to buy a new pentax dslr camera every year to remain a Pentaxian. Multiple brand ownership keeps me happy. The things I wanted from pentax and then grew tired of waiting for are easily obtained from other brands. If K20D didn't have effective shake reduction built into the body I doubt I'd own any Pentax equiptment now. That one feature keeps me in my pentax gears.

Merry Christmas Eve !!!

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

Unfortunately when it rains it pours. In addition to those issues Pentax needs to fix, the old SAFOX is really showing its age. People around here have been saying for some time, that they need to make an improvement to stay competitive. I posted this link in another thread, but I think it appropriate here:

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngUcQUchHEU[/YT]

The more I watch it the more it bugs me. How can the K-7 be more than twice as slow in EV5 light, as a Canon 7D is in EV1 light, when the Canon is using a longer lens, that is only f/4?

Oh well. Hope you do stay around Javier.

Last edited by Samsungian; 12-24-2009 at 07:00 AM.

**ManuH** · 12-24-2009, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by Boris

Which, I reckon is a good thing, because if Pentax cameras were perfect, it would be so boring, don't you think?

I think I'd love to be bored.

Boris · 12-24-2009, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by ManuH

I think I'd love to be bored.

I for one am bored enough...

@ Samsungian - since you use older glass on your K20D, and since there is an adapter that will allow you to mount it on your Canon bodies, I don't see that much reason for keeping K20D. You might as well sell it while it has value and use the 'recovered' money for another lens, few big size prints or something entirely different.

**Pål Jensen** · 12-24-2009, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by Samsungian

My 2005 era 5D autofocus dusts my K20D. Lots of people in canon forums whine about 5D's slow autofocus yet its so much better than my Pentax K20D.

Like Javier, I doubt I'll buy another new pentax item. I still like the K20D alot for driving my manual focus glass from the 80's. So I'll continue to own Pentax till the K20D dies.

I don't think one needs to buy a new pentax dslr camera every year to remain a Pentaxian. Multiple brand ownership keeps me happy. The things I wanted from pentax and then grew tired of waiting for are easily obtained from other brands. If K20D didn't have effective shake reduction built into the body I doubt I'd own any Pentax equiptment now. That one feature keeps me in my pentax gears.

Merry Christmas Eve !!!

Well, my Pentax K7 with the 16-50/2.8 is twice as fast as that Canon shown in the video in low light (indoors. two lightbulbs in the room). It is faster than one second. It can't measure it thats how fast it is.
Anyway, it is futile excercise in measurebation usually performed by people incompetent at photography. Virtually all AF cameras currently on the marked has fast enough AF to cope with any real life moving subject as long as the photographer know how to use the equipment; but some are not that fun spinning though the lens helicoid but thats not photography. I haven't once, in spite of shooting wildlife, found subjects that outruns the AF of the camera.

The funny thing is; 20 years ago with had the Canon EOS-1 with a fabulous AF system that nailed the shot every time. At least that was what people said. Now it is of course obsolete and people using it cannot get in -focus images with such an antiquated piece of shit.

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 12-24-2009 at 07:53 AM.

Samsungian · 12-24-2009, 07:55 AM

With surgury I can use Pentax K on Eos. I don't find it appealing to grind away, cut away the aperture lever and shield to use K Mount glass on eos full frame. I don't own crop format eos which does not require the k-mount lever-ectomy.

Anyways, Canon does not offer shake reduction in their dslrs. If they did, where would that leave Hoya's Pentax ??? I'd say same with Nikon, if they offer inbody shake reduction today where would that leave Pentax? If either Canon or Nikon come to market with SR bodies then the other will follow. Suddenly you'll have Pentax Sony Canon and Nikon offering image stabilized bodies. Then buyers will pick the brand that offers them best overall system available today. Maybe the brand they can touch locally ???

I like the brands of gear I own. I don't understand why I'm expected to buy every Pentax dslr they offer to make Hoya Happy with their investment in keeping pentax dslr division around, under Hoya management.

Originally posted by Boris

I for one am bored enough...

@ Samsungian - since you use older glass on your K20D, and since there is an adapter that will allow you to mount it on your Canon bodies, I don't see that much reason for keeping K20D. You might as well sell it while it has value and use the 'recovered' money for another lens, few big size prints or something entirely different.

Samsungian · 12-24-2009, 07:58 AM

See, Pentax is perfect for you. No improvements are necessary for Pal.

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Well, my Pentax K7 with the 16-50/2.8 is twice as fast as that Canon shown in the video in low light (indoors. two lightbulbs in the room). It is faster than one second. It can't measure it thats how fast it is.
Anyway, it is futile excercise in measurebation usually performed by people incompetent at photography. Virtually all AF cameras currently on the marked has fast enough AF to cope with any real life moving subject as long as the photographer know how to use the equipment; but some are not that fun spinning though the lens helicoid but thats not photography. I haven't once, in spite of shooting wildlife, found subjects that outruns the AF of the camera.

The funny thing is; 20 years ago with had the Canon EOS-1 with a fabulous AF system that nailed the shot every time. At least that was what people said. Now it is of course obsolete and people using it cannot get in -focus images with such an antiquated piece of shit.

cbaytan · 12-24-2009, 09:02 AM

Conclusion: Canon is ahead of Pentax like 1-2 years in APS-C arena =

Canon EOS 7D Review: 23. Compared to (JPEG): Digital Photography Review

Canon EOS 7D Review: 26. Compared to (RAW): Digital Photography Review

So what? K-7 is good enough for me, I can wait for 1-1.5 years instead of ruining my lens line-up, nothing happens to Pentax because there more than 20 million lenses sold in its history, some of are Leica quality, giving 3D look and so on. If Hoya sells Pentax someone else would grab it in no time. (Hope not Chinese)

I stay with Pentax unless I win the lottery, if I win lottery I move to Leica, not to Canikon, speaking for myself moving Nikon glass would be a real downgrade for me, especially after I saw results of each $40 worth 50mm M f/1.17 and FA 30-80 from ebay..

**Pål Jensen** · 12-24-2009, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by cbaytan

So what? K-7 is good enough for me, I can wait for 1-1.5 years

So basically we can conclude Canon were useless 1.5 years ago and unable to AF fast enough to yield in-focus pictures.
This boils down to that some are pissed off that something out there is faster than what they own. This in spite of the fact that it has no practical real life meaning unless you are a sportsphotographer and want to shoot 10fps with AF.....

cbaytan · 12-24-2009, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

So basically we can conclude Canon were useless 1.5 years ago and unable to AF fast enough to yield in-focus pictures.
This boils down to that some are pissed off that something out there is faster than what they own. This in spite of the fact that it has no practical real life meaning unless you are a sportsphotographer and want to shoot 10fps with AF.....

Hi Pal,

I didn't understand what you mean, is there are typo or something? Like Canon instead of Pentax.

cousinsane · 12-24-2009, 12:19 PM

Errrrr. Are you saying the newly improved autofocus system of K-7&K-x, compared to K20D&K-m, doesn't offer any real life adavantage for non-sports shooter?

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

This boils down to that some are pissed off that something out there is faster than what they own. This in spite of the fact that it has no practical real life meaning unless you are a sportsphotographer and want to shoot 10fps with AF.....

Bokehboy · 12-25-2009, 04:05 PM

I tried my best to read the entire thread but just cannot take it any more.

Another Pentax doesn't make this, that or the other thing for my purposes so Pentax is dead thread. I am not elderly but would you care to guess how much of this I have heard over the decades?

Pentax is Pentax. Period. They are not Canon, Nikon or any other brand other than Pentax. Should anyone buy any given brand and expect it to have the same specs/performance as the other brands, well, there is something wrong with you and you will be disappointed. A camera is a tool and you pick the one or ones that you think suits you best.

I have been using exclusively Pentax for almost 30 years. In that time I have heard the death cry for this company more than once, I assure you. 20 years from now Pentax will still be in business and if I am still around I will be buying their gear. I may buy other makes as well but I will not jump ship on Pentax. IMHO that is a true Pentaxian!

Just my 2 cents worth.

heliphoto · 12-25-2009, 06:02 PM

I agree with you Bokehboy, but I think I can explain why you'll keep seeing these treads for the next 20 years too (except of course that Pentax might bring out the next world leading camera in a month or two, and also, who really believes there will be anything like SLRs in 20 years)... To the outsider, new to DSLRs, all these SLR cameras look alike (at least they did to me a few years ago when I was researching what to replace my AE-1 with), and if you believe these type of threads, there are no advantages to any particular brand (note how many people in this thread have said that Pentax AF is up to any action shooting - as good as Nikon or Canon). With that in mind many people choose the feature set that most appeals to them in their price range, and based on that Pentax is an appealing brand.

Rightfully so, as they are great cameras in their class, however, some people (like me) aren't good enough photographers to use Pentax for action shooting (limited by the AF, ISO, FPS to name a few acronyms), so when we find out that other brands actually offer a distinct advantage in those areas we need a crutch in

some of us feel betrayed by the brand we chose (I didn't feel betrayed actually, but I did feel it was time to move on). We can't be happy with our Pentax camera's faults knowing that our friends, the Joneses, are getting sharp shots with their C. or N. gear while we cannot due to our (our camera's?) failings... I sold all my Pentax stuff (well, I still have a P3n and a Spotmatic) and went to Canon and couldn't be happier

.

Note, it's not the camera brand that is better... I won't say that switching from a K-7 to a Rebel would be an upgrade (I've never shot a rebel so I don't know (I bet AF would be better on the rebel

))... the difference is that the other brands offer an upgrade path - there are camera's higher in the lineup which offer higher performance than the top Pentax model.

cbaytan · 12-25-2009, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Bokehboy

Pentax is Pentax. Period. They are not Canon, Nikon or any other brand other than Pentax. Should anyone buy any given brand and expect it to have the same specs/performance as the other brands, well, there is something wrong with you and you will be disappointed. A camera is a tool and you pick the one or ones that you think suits you best.
Just my 2 cents worth.

You just can't put this with a mechanical logical sound, vast majority people have emotional attachment to Pentax brand. They at least love Pentax glass (love is an emotion)

. They just wanted their *beloved* should be better, thats all. Thats why they seem like criticizing

Some Pentax lovers truly exaggerate this criticism stuff and loose the thread. Such as ricehigh and aristophanes. Most are not, they are in the middle

So said it all.

No, it wasn't. I wish K-7 had the Conan 7D resolution.

heliphoto · 12-25-2009, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by cbaytan

...

No, it wasn't. I wish K-7 had the Conan 7D resolution. :jumpurp:

My wish was that the K-7 would be anywhere near the 7D in AF performance - just near, not as good as (since the 7D cost, what, $400 more when released?) Oh, also, the K-7 RAW output at ISO 1600 and higher should have been at least as good as the K20D

... (Nearing the 7D would have been nice in this aspect as well).

jgredline · 12-26-2009, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by heliphoto

My wish was that the K-7 would be anywhere near the 7D in AF performance - just near, not as good as (since the 7D cost, what, $400 more when released?) Oh, also, the K-7 RAW output at ISO 1600 and higher should have been at least as good as the K20D

... (Nearing the 7D would have been nice in this aspect as well).

Agreed! especially in the noise dept.

12-24-2009, 06:49 AM	#181
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	My 2005 era 5D autofocus dusts my K20D My 2005 era 5D autofocus dusts my K20D. Lots of people in canon forums whine about 5D's slow autofocus yet its so much better than my Pentax K20D. Like Javier, I doubt I'll buy another new pentax item. I still like the K20D alot for driving my manual focus glass from the 80's. So I'll continue to own Pentax till the K20D dies. I don't think one needs to buy a new pentax dslr camera every year to remain a Pentaxian. Multiple brand ownership keeps me happy. The things I wanted from pentax and then grew tired of waiting for are easily obtained from other brands. If K20D didn't have effective shake reduction built into the body I doubt I'd own any Pentax equiptment now. That one feature keeps me in my pentax gears. Merry Christmas Eve !!! Originally posted by PentaxPoke Unfortunately when it rains it pours. In addition to those issues Pentax needs to fix, the old SAFOX is really showing its age. People around here have been saying for some time, that they need to make an improvement to stay competitive. I posted this link in another thread, but I think it appropriate here: [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngUcQUchHEU[/YT] The more I watch it the more it bugs me. How can the K-7 be more than twice as slow in EV5 light, as a Canon 7D is in EV1 light, when the Canon is using a longer lens, that is only f/4? Oh well. Hope you do stay around Javier. Last edited by Samsungian; 12-24-2009 at 07:00 AM.

12-24-2009, 07:55 AM	#185
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	With surgury I can use Pentax K on Eos With surgury I can use Pentax K on Eos. I don't find it appealing to grind away, cut away the aperture lever and shield to use K Mount glass on eos full frame. I don't own crop format eos which does not require the k-mount lever-ectomy. Anyways, Canon does not offer shake reduction in their dslrs. If they did, where would that leave Hoya's Pentax ??? I'd say same with Nikon, if they offer inbody shake reduction today where would that leave Pentax? If either Canon or Nikon come to market with SR bodies then the other will follow. Suddenly you'll have Pentax Sony Canon and Nikon offering image stabilized bodies. Then buyers will pick the brand that offers them best overall system available today. Maybe the brand they can touch locally ??? I like the brands of gear I own. I don't understand why I'm expected to buy every Pentax dslr they offer to make Hoya Happy with their investment in keeping pentax dslr division around, under Hoya management. Originally posted by Boris I for one am bored enough... @ Samsungian - since you use older glass on your K20D, and since there is an adapter that will allow you to mount it on your Canon bodies, I don't see that much reason for keeping K20D. You might as well sell it while it has value and use the 'recovered' money for another lens, few big size prints or something entirely different.

12-24-2009, 07:58 AM	#186
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	See, Pentax is perfect for you. No improvements are necessary See, Pentax is perfect for you. No improvements are necessary for Pal. Originally posted by Pål Jensen Well, my Pentax K7 with the 16-50/2.8 is twice as fast as that Canon shown in the video in low light (indoors. two lightbulbs in the room). It is faster than one second. It can't measure it thats how fast it is. Anyway, it is futile excercise in measurebation usually performed by people incompetent at photography. Virtually all AF cameras currently on the marked has fast enough AF to cope with any real life moving subject as long as the photographer know how to use the equipment; but some are not that fun spinning though the lens helicoid but thats not photography. I haven't once, in spite of shooting wildlife, found subjects that outruns the AF of the camera. The funny thing is; 20 years ago with had the Canon EOS-1 with a fabulous AF system that nailed the shot every time. At least that was what people said. Now it is of course obsolete and people using it cannot get in -focus images with such an antiquated piece of shit.

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12-24-2009, 07:26 AM	#182
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by Boris Which, I reckon is a good thing, because if Pentax cameras were perfect, it would be so boring, don't you think? I think I'd love to be bored.

12-24-2009, 07:31 AM	#183
Boris Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Israel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 932	Originally posted by ManuH I think I'd love to be bored. I for one am bored enough... @ Samsungian - since you use older glass on your K20D, and since there is an adapter that will allow you to mount it on your Canon bodies, I don't see that much reason for keeping K20D. You might as well sell it while it has value and use the 'recovered' money for another lens, few big size prints or something entirely different.

12-24-2009, 07:44 AM	#184
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Samsungian My 2005 era 5D autofocus dusts my K20D. Lots of people in canon forums whine about 5D's slow autofocus yet its so much better than my Pentax K20D. Like Javier, I doubt I'll buy another new pentax item. I still like the K20D alot for driving my manual focus glass from the 80's. So I'll continue to own Pentax till the K20D dies. I don't think one needs to buy a new pentax dslr camera every year to remain a Pentaxian. Multiple brand ownership keeps me happy. The things I wanted from pentax and then grew tired of waiting for are easily obtained from other brands. If K20D didn't have effective shake reduction built into the body I doubt I'd own any Pentax equiptment now. That one feature keeps me in my pentax gears. Merry Christmas Eve !!! Well, my Pentax K7 with the 16-50/2.8 is twice as fast as that Canon shown in the video in low light (indoors. two lightbulbs in the room). It is faster than one second. It can't measure it thats how fast it is. Anyway, it is futile excercise in measurebation usually performed by people incompetent at photography. Virtually all AF cameras currently on the marked has fast enough AF to cope with any real life moving subject as long as the photographer know how to use the equipment; but some are not that fun spinning though the lens helicoid but thats not photography. I haven't once, in spite of shooting wildlife, found subjects that outruns the AF of the camera. The funny thing is; 20 years ago with had the Canon EOS-1 with a fabulous AF system that nailed the shot every time. At least that was what people said. Now it is of course obsolete and people using it cannot get in -focus images with such an antiquated piece of shit. Last edited by Pål Jensen; 12-24-2009 at 07:53 AM.

12-24-2009, 09:02 AM	#187
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Conclusion: Canon is ahead of Pentax like 1-2 years in APS-C arena = Canon EOS 7D Review: 23. Compared to (JPEG): Digital Photography Review Canon EOS 7D Review: 26. Compared to (RAW): Digital Photography Review So what? K-7 is good enough for me, I can wait for 1-1.5 years instead of ruining my lens line-up, nothing happens to Pentax because there more than 20 million lenses sold in its history, some of are Leica quality, giving 3D look and so on. If Hoya sells Pentax someone else would grab it in no time. (Hope not Chinese) I stay with Pentax unless I win the lottery, if I win lottery I move to Leica, not to Canikon, speaking for myself moving Nikon glass would be a real downgrade for me, especially after I saw results of each $40 worth 50mm M f/1.17 and FA 30-80 from ebay..

12-24-2009, 11:15 AM	#188
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by cbaytan So what? K-7 is good enough for me, I can wait for 1-1.5 years So basically we can conclude Canon were useless 1.5 years ago and unable to AF fast enough to yield in-focus pictures. This boils down to that some are pissed off that something out there is faster than what they own. This in spite of the fact that it has no practical real life meaning unless you are a sportsphotographer and want to shoot 10fps with AF.....

12-24-2009, 11:53 AM	#189
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by Pål Jensen So basically we can conclude Canon were useless 1.5 years ago and unable to AF fast enough to yield in-focus pictures. This boils down to that some are pissed off that something out there is faster than what they own. This in spite of the fact that it has no practical real life meaning unless you are a sportsphotographer and want to shoot 10fps with AF..... Hi Pal, I didn't understand what you mean, is there are typo or something? Like Canon instead of Pentax.

12-24-2009, 12:19 PM	#190
cousinsane Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: madison Posts: 239	Errrrr. Are you saying the newly improved autofocus system of K-7&K-x, compared to K20D&K-m, doesn't offer any real life adavantage for non-sports shooter? Originally posted by Pål Jensen This boils down to that some are pissed off that something out there is faster than what they own. This in spite of the fact that it has no practical real life meaning unless you are a sportsphotographer and want to shoot 10fps with AF.....

12-25-2009, 04:05 PM	#191
Bokehboy Inactive Account Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pennsylvania, U. S. A. Posts: 247	I tried my best to read the entire thread but just cannot take it any more. Another Pentax doesn't make this, that or the other thing for my purposes so Pentax is dead thread. I am not elderly but would you care to guess how much of this I have heard over the decades? Pentax is Pentax. Period. They are not Canon, Nikon or any other brand other than Pentax. Should anyone buy any given brand and expect it to have the same specs/performance as the other brands, well, there is something wrong with you and you will be disappointed. A camera is a tool and you pick the one or ones that you think suits you best. I have been using exclusively Pentax for almost 30 years. In that time I have heard the death cry for this company more than once, I assure you. 20 years from now Pentax will still be in business and if I am still around I will be buying their gear. I may buy other makes as well but I will not jump ship on Pentax. IMHO that is a true Pentaxian! Just my 2 cents worth.

12-25-2009, 06:02 PM	#192
heliphoto Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Region 5 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,539	I agree with you Bokehboy, but I think I can explain why you'll keep seeing these treads for the next 20 years too (except of course that Pentax might bring out the next world leading camera in a month or two, and also, who really believes there will be anything like SLRs in 20 years)... To the outsider, new to DSLRs, all these SLR cameras look alike (at least they did to me a few years ago when I was researching what to replace my AE-1 with), and if you believe these type of threads, there are no advantages to any particular brand (note how many people in this thread have said that Pentax AF is up to any action shooting - as good as Nikon or Canon). With that in mind many people choose the feature set that most appeals to them in their price range, and based on that Pentax is an appealing brand. Rightfully so, as they are great cameras in their class, however, some people (like me) aren't good enough photographers to use Pentax for action shooting (limited by the AF, ISO, FPS to name a few acronyms), so when we find out that other brands actually offer a distinct advantage in those areas we need a crutch in some of us feel betrayed by the brand we chose (I didn't feel betrayed actually, but I did feel it was time to move on). We can't be happy with our Pentax camera's faults knowing that our friends, the Joneses, are getting sharp shots with their C. or N. gear while we cannot due to our (our camera's?) failings... I sold all my Pentax stuff (well, I still have a P3n and a Spotmatic) and went to Canon and couldn't be happier . Note, it's not the camera brand that is better... I won't say that switching from a K-7 to a Rebel would be an upgrade (I've never shot a rebel so I don't know (I bet AF would be better on the rebel ))... the difference is that the other brands offer an upgrade path - there are camera's higher in the lineup which offer higher performance than the top Pentax model.

12-25-2009, 11:26 PM	#193
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by Bokehboy Pentax is Pentax. Period. They are not Canon, Nikon or any other brand other than Pentax. Should anyone buy any given brand and expect it to have the same specs/performance as the other brands, well, there is something wrong with you and you will be disappointed. A camera is a tool and you pick the one or ones that you think suits you best. Just my 2 cents worth. You just can't put this with a mechanical logical sound, vast majority people have emotional attachment to Pentax brand. They at least love Pentax glass (love is an emotion) . They just wanted their beloved should be better, thats all. Thats why they seem like criticizing Some Pentax lovers truly exaggerate this criticism stuff and loose the thread. Such as ricehigh and aristophanes. Most are not, they are in the middle So said it all. No, it wasn't. I wish K-7 had the Conan 7D resolution.

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12-25-2009, 11:57 PM	#194
heliphoto Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Region 5 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,539	Originally posted by cbaytan ... No, it wasn't. I wish K-7 had the Conan 7D resolution. :jumpurp: My wish was that the K-7 would be anywhere near the 7D in AF performance - just near, not as good as (since the 7D cost, what, $400 more when released?) Oh, also, the K-7 RAW output at ISO 1600 and higher should have been at least as good as the K20D ... (Nearing the 7D would have been nice in this aspect as well).

12-26-2009, 12:56 AM	#195
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by heliphoto My wish was that the K-7 would be anywhere near the 7D in AF performance - just near, not as good as (since the 7D cost, what, $400 more when released?) Oh, also, the K-7 RAW output at ISO 1600 and higher should have been at least as good as the K20D ... (Nearing the 7D would have been nice in this aspect as well). Agreed! especially in the noise dept.