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12-09-2009, 10:02 AM   #1
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Bad News from Turkey

Hi everyone
I am the owner and creator of PentaxTurkey Network with 1500 users. I know that PentaxForums is the biggest PENTAXIAN based community but last news from Turkey are not good as before. Our forum loosing more and more members, as well as moderators. 2 of our moderators switched to Canon FF.Some sold their K-7 and K-20 to change their brand from Pentax to Nikon and Sony. If you will ask me, well, before K10D satisfied all my needs but not its not enough for me. I need body that will provide me fast and accurate af, good ISO and 35mm sensor.
You may think that : Dude you are crazy you better take a look at K-7, but K-7 is not enough as well. Its meaningless for me to pay 1100 USD just for K-7 body. I may add 700 USD and get A-850 instead, or switch to Canon.
Its really strange that within 3 weeks we saw how good photographers in Turkey, just sold their Limited and STAR lenses and now with CaNikon.
Here I saw a lot of FF topics and there are just some assumptions and some rumors, but no FACTS. The only fact I see is that PENTAX not interested in FF camera. They lost their time with MEDIUM FORMAT, trying to get body that is prototype for years. In my opinion, they already lost their game to Leaf, Hasselblad. There is no way they can get their previous popularity.
Pentaxians always try to look into reality with ignorance to it. We try to say to others:" Pentax allow you to use old primes like 50mm, 100mm, 200mm" but now its meaningless. Price for these lenses are high and at least in Turkey you can buy 50mm 1.8 AF CaNikon lens for the same price you pay for Pentax M 50mm 1.7 .
Pentaxians argue that AF we have i good and we can take photos in dark places without any difficulty, but its not true. Pentax released 2 bodies, K-7 and K-x but its not for us. People who feel that they need FF body or advanced body cant see any future in Pentax. K-x and K-7 are bodies those can attract new customers but at the same time they force old pentaxians to switch to other brands.
I’ve tested and took some photos with k-7 but its not for me. I can’t see Image Quality I have on my K10D.
May be this topic is meaningless or silly for you but I’m afraid that very soon our PentaxTurkey Community will fall apart and with time there will be no Pentax.

12-09-2009, 10:08 AM   #2
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I agree on one of your points... why do we have to pay MORE for the K-7 than Canikon offers for their similar body cameras? Why are Pentax lenses now the same price or MORE than the same offerings from Canikon?

Now that the VALUE aspect of the system has completely disappeared, I'm having a very difficult time convincing myself to stick with it too.

What the hell is Pentax doing?
12-09-2009, 10:35 AM   #3
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I'm also feeling some of the recent, in my opinion, negative changes.

I just bought a used K20d. Only because I have other gear to use with it. If things remain the same, I'll be leaving for another system, sadly.

I bought into the Pentax system because the lenses were less expensive (by virtue of in-body shake reduction I presume). I don't mind paying the same, or even more, for the body if it offers more (again, by virtue of in-body vs. in-lens shake reduction). The trade off should be that lenses remain more affordable.

Now that Pentax glass is just as expensive as canikon it's making less and less fiscal sense to someone like myself who has a very limited budget.
12-09-2009, 10:39 AM   #4
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Pentax has always been about entry level SLR's to advanced SLR's, and for professionals medium format is the answer. Pentax never released a SLR to compete with Canon EOS 1D, they had the 645 for that.

The K-7 does very well as a low priced competitior to EOS 50 and D300.
Of course the Canon AF 50 f/1.8 is cheap, it is all plastic and it is very cheap to manufacture. It doesn't even have distance info scale.
And you expect Pentax to come up with such a lens?

Pentax has always been about build quality.
When the competition has more plastics than metal in their chassies, Pentax has stand by metal even for the entry level model. (Yes, the K-x has inner chassi of true metal, not the plastics that Canon uses...).

The K-7 is a very nice upgrade to the K10D. 100% viewfinder, better performance at high ISO, faster and more accurate AF even in low light, even better weather sealing, added video and stereo recording, plus the bonus of better P-TTL and metering performance - in a smaller and more compact package.

I can't afford 24x36 and I don't need it. I don't want big cameras. APS-C is the ideal format as I see it.

I don't understand why Pentax lenses must be less expensive than Canon. Do you suggest that Pentax lenses are inferior to the lenses made by Canon and because of that they needs to be less expensive because Canon is better???

Well, my opinion is that Pentax lenses are better than Canon. Pentax has always had the best anti flare coating in the industry, and many of the technologies used in the lenses made by Canon, are in fact patented by Pentax. Pentax invented the hybrid aspherical lens element, for example (with Hitachi designing the production and manufacturing process). Pentax lenses has a nice colour rendition, compact size and are unique offerings.

12-09-2009, 10:41 AM   #5
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Alex as a fellow pentaxturkey forum member,i agree with you.

pentax is hesitant about radical changes..They dont want to extend their D-FA lens lineup..An old company with old habits,i'd say..

But they do realize that in time,competition will(and very soon)force them to change their mentality.

And about those old lens prices,there s nothing that pentax can do...This is our market's situation,and our "invisible hand"..
12-09-2009, 10:55 AM   #6
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Okay. I just like to share my experience. I recently bought a canon 30D with some lenses. I found the AF to be fast as compared to my k10D/k20D. The 30D is a joy to use. I like the fast AF, high ISO capability (I like the ISO 1000 of the 30D) and the great flash system of canon (I really like the - 580EX II - very fast recycling time). For less amount of moolah I have aquired great lenses like the sharp 85mm f1.8 (which is the focal length I dream with my pentax system) and the 50mm f.1.8 (which is damn cheap- a really bang of the buck!!!).

So... which is better.. pentax or canon?

Okay... I'll be honest.... In terms of image quality - I think they produce the same (except for color config). In terms of advance technology - Canon.

I love pentax! Its in my blood. The canon maybe really good as compared to pentax in terms of advance technology but..... when Im using the pancake lenses... I forget canon (hehehe...).

I use them both for paid shoots.
12-09-2009, 10:56 AM   #7
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I agree with Roland 100%



QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Pentax has always been about entry level SLR's to advanced SLR's, and for professionals medium format is the answer. Pentax never released a SLR to compete with Canon EOS 1D, they had the 645 for that.

The K-7 does very well as a low priced competitior to EOS 50 and D300.
Of course the Canon AF 50 f/1.8 is cheap, it is all plastic and it is very cheap to manufacture. It doesn't even have distance info scale.
And you expect Pentax to come up with such a lens?

Pentax has always been about build quality.
When the competition has more plastics than metal in their chassies, Pentax has stand by metal even for the entry level model. (Yes, the K-x has inner chassi of true metal, not the plastics that Canon uses...).

The K-7 is a very nice upgrade to the K10D. 100% viewfinder, better performance at high ISO, faster and more accurate AF even in low light, even better weather sealing, added video and stereo recording, plus the bonus of better P-TTL and metering performance - in a smaller and more compact package.

I can't afford 24x36 and I don't need it. I don't want big cameras. APS-C is the ideal format as I see it.

I don't understand why Pentax lenses must be less expensive than Canon. Do you suggest that Pentax lenses are inferior to the lenses made by Canon and because of that they needs to be less expensive because Canon is better???

Well, my opinion is that Pentax lenses are better than Canon. Pentax has always had the best anti flare coating in the industry, and many of the technologies used in the lenses made by Canon, are in fact patented by Pentax. Pentax invented the hybrid aspherical lens element, for example (with Hitachi designing the production and manufacturing process). Pentax lenses has a nice colour rendition, compact size and are unique offerings.
12-09-2009, 10:57 AM   #8
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Unfortunately I think our friend from Turkey has some valid points. I have a K10D and frankly there isn't enough difference or better in the K7 to make me change.

But that also goes for the Nikon D300 and Canon 7D...more mps and HD video, but i'm a still photographer and frankly neither the Canon or Nikon offer enough for me to consider change.

I know that some consider a FF to be the new medium format. I don't think so having medium format film ...Mamiya and three lenses. I have a friend who used a Canon FF and I've seen his pix blown up...they are not in medium format territory...I'm not sure they are that much better than my K10D can produce.

Sony...I don't buy...I have had problems in the past.

I think Pentax needs to review the cost of their lenses and also the fact that they are short a number of lenses compared to Canikon.

I want a extreme wide angle zoom and the 12 -24 isn't extrme enough and the price is way out of whack.

I also want an good, 400 F5.6 prime, but again...nothing on the horizon. Toss us a bone Pentax.

12-09-2009, 10:57 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
....

I don't understand why Pentax lenses must be less expensive than Canon. Do you suggest that Pentax lenses are inferior to the lenses made by Canon and because of that they needs to be less expensive because Canon is better???
....
I would suggest that a good Pentax lens is every bit as good as a good Canikon lens. But when they cost the same, and the Pentax lens has less expensive technology in it, then the Pentax actually costs more. That's my $.02.

I'm not bashing Pentax by any means. I'm staying with them as long as I can afford to.
12-09-2009, 10:58 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
I don't understand why Pentax lenses must be less expensive than Canon.
From a technical point of view, a Pentax lens without IS/SR/VR should be cheaper than an optically similar lens with IS/SR/VR. And AFAIK, they used to be. Now the price hikes and market mechanism force us to pay about as much as or even more.
12-09-2009, 11:04 AM   #11
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All the things that you noticed made me switch to Canon FF this summer. I've been using Pentax since film days. Even simple announcement saying, Yes we are working on FF and will release it in a year, would most likely make me stay. But apparently Pentax is not interested in my $$, and I am not interested in company without the plan.

I think Pentax is getting new clients, who are buying km-kx models. One can tell this by number of people who are using crappy battaries instead of Eneloops and then complain about problems. I've learned this with istD in 2004
But people who used Pentax system for years are leaving now.
And yeah, paying this sort of money for cropped lenses with pretty bad resale value, does not make sense for me, I rather buy Ls.

I am not going to leave the system completely, I am planning to buy Kx as my travel camera, but I am done with buying lenses from Pentax, and expanding this system, sticking with a few FA lenses I have left today.
12-09-2009, 11:04 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by matiki Quote
I would suggest that a good Pentax lens is every bit as good as a good Canikon lens. But when they cost the same, and the Pentax lens has less expensive technology in it, then the Pentax actually costs more. That's my $.02.

I'm not bashing Pentax by any means. I'm staying with them as long as I can afford to.
If pentax was known for its cheap price, then they should review and lower their current prices. But in my humble opinion. If I compare my canon lenses with my pentax lenses: Durability: Pentax wins!! Advancement: Canon (the USM is indeed good). Glass Quality: I think both are great!
12-09-2009, 12:04 PM   #13
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K-X, done haha.

Anyways, Pentax for me has always been the quality + lower price point. The availability of accessible legacy glass has also been a big push especially with the crazy price hikes.

Given that I went down this road I realized one thing. Photographers here treated the system in two or three parts. The Camera Body, The Lens and ..the Flash. Provided some means of backwards compatibility, they chose what ever suited them the best and weren't tied to the brand of their camera body.

So in time, one may be mutli branded only to better utilize the strengths of the brands they choose.

I've dabbled into Nikon and currently use Nikon Flashes on my Pentax and even pondered about other bodies because of their low noise capabilities. In the end I never leave Pentax as a camera body because frankly, I like doing things myself.
12-09-2009, 12:30 PM   #14
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Gee. Leica must be absolute crap to you guys.
Not very many lenses, and really expensive.
12-09-2009, 12:42 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hannican Quote
I agree on one of your points... why do we have to pay MORE for the K-7 than Canikon offers for their similar body cameras? Why are Pentax lenses now the same price or MORE than the same offerings from Canikon?
Mmm? You're joking, aren't you?
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