DA* 400mm F4 coming!

mtkeller · 05-22-2021, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by bertwert

Aha, thanks for pointing out that use case - sports is an area where I have absolutely zero experience and didn't realise such a large in range was needed. While having the option of one would be nice, I still stand by what I said that I think a rebranded 150-600 doesn't make sense for the company - doing so they'd effectively kill off the 150-450, as why would someone go for that over the longer range one?

The Tamron is a bit slower…it’s f/5 at the wide end and then f/5.6 from 213–427. I guess that means for some of the common range, the lenses would have the same maximum aperture, but the 150–450 would be faster most of the time. I’ve not handled the 150–450 before. If it is incredibly sharp at 450, it may be that heavy cropping when shot on a great APS-C body like my K-3 iii would suffice for sports needs, but I feel like to be taken seriously for the sorts of action that the K-3 iii AF system can handle, Pentax needs something longer than 450.

Ian Stuart Forsyth · 05-22-2021, 04:10 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

"Shallow DOF" is what makes "Isolation" work; only the subject is in focus, so your brain sees only that.
On the other hand, photos of groups 'work' only because the DOF is not shallow, so all the subjects are in focus.

No DOF is not what makes isolation work, DOF is what DOF is that portion of the image that appears as sharp.

We can have a image with the same DOF and the isolation of the subject is independent of the DOF. This is why a person may want to use a 500mm f4 @ f4.5 and will be able to shoot a subject with the same DOF as a person using a 300mm F6.7 but the subject isolation of the 500 mm lens at that F4.5 will have very different amount of subject isolation so as you can see its not always about DOF as DOF is what it is ( area that appears to be sharp) and isolation is how much of the background is blurred.

zapp · 05-23-2021, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth

No DOF is not what makes isolation work, DOF is what DOF is that portion of the image that appears as sharp.

We can have a image with the same DOF and the isolation of the subject is independent of the DOF. This is why a person may want to use a 500mm f4 @ f4.5 and will be able to shoot a subject with the same DOF as a person using a 300mm F6.7 but the subject isolation of the 500 mm lens at that F4.5 will have very different amount of subject isolation so as you can see its not always about DOF as DOF is what it is ( area that appears to be sharp) and isolation is how much of the background is blurred.

When using any particular lens, the aperture ring serves as DOF or subject isolation wheel. If you want to add perspective, subject distance, etc everything is possible. Key is that larger aperture yields more light and less DOF. And typically such lenses perform much better wide open than a generic lens even stopped down.

Ian Stuart Forsyth · 05-23-2021, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by zapp

When using any particular lens, the aperture ring serves as DOF or subject isolation wheel. If you want to add perspective, subject distance, etc everything is possible.

My point was that these so called shallow DOF lenses that someone has no use for can do 2 things give you better subject isolation while still giving that user the ability to capture the same DOF and add to that it allow the user to gather more light for the same framing

reh321 · 05-24-2021, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth

My point was that these so called shallow DOF lenses that someone has no use for can do 2 things give you better subject isolation while still giving that user the ability to capture the same DOF and add to that it allow the user to gather more light for the same framing

and my point is that Pentax doesn't seem to sell many of them, so they may be reluctant to roll out a new line. This thread is over ten years old, and the mythical lens that it is about has never become reality. These are the facts. Our opinions differ. So what?

You may continue to express your your opinions, but I will not argue with you.

BarneyL · 05-24-2021, 06:20 AM - **3 Likes**

There's no info indicating that the lens from the title is coming, or was ever in the works.

@Moderators, please move this thread elsewhere, it's confusing and it seems to attract not so nice comments.

brewmaster15 · 05-24-2021, 07:45 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by bertwert

Eh, I'm not really sure a rebrand of the 150-600 would make the most sense when there's the 150-450 available. From what I've read in other threads, the 150-450 is better at 450 than the 150-600 is at 600, possibly yielding just as good results when cropped - also with the TC (well, we're missing a FF one which would certainly be useful to have here) added to the 150-450, you're only looking at 2/3 stop slower at the far end - sure, that's pretty slow f/8 wide open, but not bad considering reviews say you only need to to stop down about half a stop to really improve the sharpness - but that's the compromise you would have to live with. Overall, it just seems a bit much overlap for Pentax, when we're saying they have to be careful in their considerations of what lenses to introduce.

A disclaimer that I've never used either of the two lenses, just regurgitating previously seen information on the forum here...

Hi Robert,

In my search for the best set up for my shooting style and hobby I ended up having both set-ups and have read quite a few comments similar to what you have,and it makes me scratch my head... but honestly I consider the Tamron 150-600 G2 a stellar lens @ close to half the price of DFA 150-450.. I also have the tamron teleconverter thats made for the lens... as well as pentax HD tc. As someone thats into wild life photography I can honestly say that Tamron 150-600 even without the TC is hard to beat from an economic point of view while providing great results. Once I get the hang of my K3 iii , I hope to do some side by side shooting with the two lens and the D500 vs K-3 iii .. Thats down the road though. I am not saying the tamron is better than the Pentax lens, the Pentax DFA 150-450 is an awesome lens..but I wanted more reach.. . I have been incredibly impressed with the Tamron G2 150-600. If Tamron ever came out with one in Pentax, I would be first in line..

have a look here...

Red Breasted

That image was at 450mm on the Tamron 150-600 G2 hand held

heres one at 550mm again hand held...

Red Breasted Robin

al

Last edited by brewmaster15; 05-24-2021 at 08:03 AM.

bertwert · 05-24-2021, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by brewmaster15

Hi Robert,

In my search for the best set up for my shooting style and hobby I ended up having both set-ups and have read quite a few comments similar to what you have,and it makes me scratch my head... but honestly I consider the Tamron 150-600 G2 a stellar lens @ close to half the price of DFA 150-450.. I also have the tamron teleconverter thats made for the lens... as well as pentax HD tc. As someone thats into wild life photography I can honestly say that Tamron 150-600 even without the TC is hard to beat from an economic point of view while providing great results. Once I get the hang of my K3 iii , I hope to do some side by side shooting with the two lens and the D500 vs K-3 iii .. Thats down the road though. I am not saying the tamron is better than the Pentax lens, the Pentax DFA 150-450 is an awesome lens..but I wanted more reach.. . I have been incredibly impressed with the Tamron G2 150-600. If Tamron ever came out with one in Pentax, I would be first in line..

hth,

al

Thanks for offering your perspective Al - I hadn't realised the difference in price (my fault for not checking before offering my earlier opinion). However, if anything, that makes me think it's an even worse idea for Pentax to introduce one - it would completely eat out of any 150-450 sales if it's so much cheaper. Now, don't get me wrong, I would really like to see that option available for Pentax, it's more just a question if it's feasible for the company or not - maybe the DFA 150-450 has been out long enough it doesn't matter so much?

I'd certainly be interested in seeing any comparisons you do between the D500/150-600 and K-3iii/150-450 - I'm sure you thought of this already, but see if can crop the 150-450 results to match the 150-600 on the long end - I wouldn't be surprised if the Pentax combo was slightly better still, due to the higher resolution and better performing sensor, as well as the excellent glass.

As far as the 150-450 as an option for shooting, I sometimes flip between wanting one or not - I could probably stretch my current budget to afford (a used) one, but to justify it I would have to get rid of my A 400 I like so much for it's lightweight, so looking at picking up some more old MF primes to complement the A 400 instead... though AF might be nice sometimes... anyways that's another discussion for another day...

**Pål Jensen** · 05-24-2021, 10:56 AM

No its not!

The title of this thread is grossly misleading!

reh321 · 05-24-2021, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

No its not!

The title of this thread is grossly misleading!

There was apparently a rumor to that effect ten years ago, so the thread was entirely appropriate when it was started.
Now - not so much.

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05-22-2021, 03:33 PM	#226
mtkeller Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sioux City, IA Photos: Gallery Posts: 938	Originally posted by bertwert Aha, thanks for pointing out that use case - sports is an area where I have absolutely zero experience and didn't realise such a large in range was needed. While having the option of one would be nice, I still stand by what I said that I think a rebranded 150-600 doesn't make sense for the company - doing so they'd effectively kill off the 150-450, as why would someone go for that over the longer range one? The Tamron is a bit slower…it’s f/5 at the wide end and then f/5.6 from 213–427. I guess that means for some of the common range, the lenses would have the same maximum aperture, but the 150–450 would be faster most of the time. I’ve not handled the 150–450 before. If it is incredibly sharp at 450, it may be that heavy cropping when shot on a great APS-C body like my K-3 iii would suffice for sports needs, but I feel like to be taken seriously for the sorts of action that the K-3 iii AF system can handle, Pentax needs something longer than 450.

05-22-2021, 04:10 PM - 1 Like	#227
Ian Stuart Forsyth Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,531	Originally posted by reh321 "Shallow DOF" is what makes "Isolation" work; only the subject is in focus, so your brain sees only that. On the other hand, photos of groups 'work' only because the DOF is not shallow, so all the subjects are in focus. No DOF is not what makes isolation work, DOF is what DOF is that portion of the image that appears as sharp. We can have a image with the same DOF and the isolation of the subject is independent of the DOF. This is why a person may want to use a 500mm f4 @ f4.5 and will be able to shoot a subject with the same DOF as a person using a 300mm F6.7 but the subject isolation of the 500 mm lens at that F4.5 will have very different amount of subject isolation so as you can see its not always about DOF as DOF is what it is ( area that appears to be sharp) and isolation is how much of the background is blurred.

05-23-2021, 04:47 AM	#228
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Originally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth No DOF is not what makes isolation work, DOF is what DOF is that portion of the image that appears as sharp. We can have a image with the same DOF and the isolation of the subject is independent of the DOF. This is why a person may want to use a 500mm f4 @ f4.5 and will be able to shoot a subject with the same DOF as a person using a 300mm F6.7 but the subject isolation of the 500 mm lens at that F4.5 will have very different amount of subject isolation so as you can see its not always about DOF as DOF is what it is ( area that appears to be sharp) and isolation is how much of the background is blurred. When using any particular lens, the aperture ring serves as DOF or subject isolation wheel. If you want to add perspective, subject distance, etc everything is possible. Key is that larger aperture yields more light and less DOF. And typically such lenses perform much better wide open than a generic lens even stopped down.

05-23-2021, 09:27 PM	#229
Ian Stuart Forsyth Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,531	Originally posted by zapp When using any particular lens, the aperture ring serves as DOF or subject isolation wheel. If you want to add perspective, subject distance, etc everything is possible. My point was that these so called shallow DOF lenses that someone has no use for can do 2 things give you better subject isolation while still giving that user the ability to capture the same DOF and add to that it allow the user to gather more light for the same framing

05-24-2021, 06:16 AM	#230
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth My point was that these so called shallow DOF lenses that someone has no use for can do 2 things give you better subject isolation while still giving that user the ability to capture the same DOF and add to that it allow the user to gather more light for the same framing and my point is that Pentax doesn't seem to sell many of them, so they may be reluctant to roll out a new line. This thread is over ten years old, and the mythical lens that it is about has never become reality. These are the facts. Our opinions differ. So what? You may continue to express your your opinions, but I will not argue with you.

05-24-2021, 06:20 AM - 3 Likes	#231
BarneyL Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 899	There's no info indicating that the lens from the title is coming, or was ever in the works. @Moderators, please move this thread elsewhere, it's confusing and it seems to attract not so nice comments.

05-24-2021, 07:45 AM - 2 Likes	#232
brewmaster15 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: CT Posts: 1,860	Originally posted by bertwert Eh, I'm not really sure a rebrand of the 150-600 would make the most sense when there's the 150-450 available. From what I've read in other threads, the 150-450 is better at 450 than the 150-600 is at 600, possibly yielding just as good results when cropped - also with the TC (well, we're missing a FF one which would certainly be useful to have here) added to the 150-450, you're only looking at 2/3 stop slower at the far end - sure, that's pretty slow f/8 wide open, but not bad considering reviews say you only need to to stop down about half a stop to really improve the sharpness - but that's the compromise you would have to live with. Overall, it just seems a bit much overlap for Pentax, when we're saying they have to be careful in their considerations of what lenses to introduce. A disclaimer that I've never used either of the two lenses, just regurgitating previously seen information on the forum here... Hi Robert, In my search for the best set up for my shooting style and hobby I ended up having both set-ups and have read quite a few comments similar to what you have,and it makes me scratch my head... but honestly I consider the Tamron 150-600 G2 a stellar lens @ close to half the price of DFA 150-450.. I also have the tamron teleconverter thats made for the lens... as well as pentax HD tc. As someone thats into wild life photography I can honestly say that Tamron 150-600 even without the TC is hard to beat from an economic point of view while providing great results. Once I get the hang of my K3 iii , I hope to do some side by side shooting with the two lens and the D500 vs K-3 iii .. Thats down the road though. I am not saying the tamron is better than the Pentax lens, the Pentax DFA 150-450 is an awesome lens..but I wanted more reach.. . I have been incredibly impressed with the Tamron G2 150-600. If Tamron ever came out with one in Pentax, I would be first in line.. have a look here... Red Breasted That image was at 450mm on the Tamron 150-600 G2 hand held heres one at 550mm again hand held... Red Breasted Robin al Last edited by brewmaster15; 05-24-2021 at 08:03 AM.

05-24-2021, 08:00 AM	#233
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,173	Originally posted by brewmaster15 Hi Robert, In my search for the best set up for my shooting style and hobby I ended up having both set-ups and have read quite a few comments similar to what you have,and it makes me scratch my head... but honestly I consider the Tamron 150-600 G2 a stellar lens @ close to half the price of DFA 150-450.. I also have the tamron teleconverter thats made for the lens... as well as pentax HD tc. As someone thats into wild life photography I can honestly say that Tamron 150-600 even without the TC is hard to beat from an economic point of view while providing great results. Once I get the hang of my K3 iii , I hope to do some side by side shooting with the two lens and the D500 vs K-3 iii .. Thats down the road though. I am not saying the tamron is better than the Pentax lens, the Pentax DFA 150-450 is an awesome lens..but I wanted more reach.. . I have been incredibly impressed with the Tamron G2 150-600. If Tamron ever came out with one in Pentax, I would be first in line.. hth, al Thanks for offering your perspective Al - I hadn't realised the difference in price (my fault for not checking before offering my earlier opinion). However, if anything, that makes me think it's an even worse idea for Pentax to introduce one - it would completely eat out of any 150-450 sales if it's so much cheaper. Now, don't get me wrong, I would really like to see that option available for Pentax, it's more just a question if it's feasible for the company or not - maybe the DFA 150-450 has been out long enough it doesn't matter so much? I'd certainly be interested in seeing any comparisons you do between the D500/150-600 and K-3iii/150-450 - I'm sure you thought of this already, but see if can crop the 150-450 results to match the 150-600 on the long end - I wouldn't be surprised if the Pentax combo was slightly better still, due to the higher resolution and better performing sensor, as well as the excellent glass. As far as the 150-450 as an option for shooting, I sometimes flip between wanting one or not - I could probably stretch my current budget to afford (a used) one, but to justify it I would have to get rid of my A 400 I like so much for it's lightweight, so looking at picking up some more old MF primes to complement the A 400 instead... though AF might be nice sometimes... anyways that's another discussion for another day...

05-24-2021, 10:56 AM	#234
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	No its not! The title of this thread is grossly misleading!

05-24-2021, 11:55 AM	#235
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Pål Jensen No its not! The title of this thread is grossly misleading! There was apparently a rumor to that effect ten years ago, so the thread was entirely appropriate when it was started. Now - not so much.