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06-17-2007, 02:07 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryML Quote
So maybe a 50-135mm is not the best lens for your particular needs, but there are plenty of other people for whom this is a very useful range and are eagerly awaiting this lens. I personally don't have an interest in a 16-50mm zoom as 16mm isn't wide enough for my needs, but I wouldn't claim that Pentax is stupid for making such a lens simply because it isn't what I need.
But wouldn't a cropped sensor 80-200/2.8 be much smaller than the FA* version?

Actually, I both need and want neither lens. Nor would I buy them. Even so, I think Pentax is being flatly stupid in thinking that people are comparing angles of view to the 35mm counterparts - for the vast majority they aren't. It is where Pentax is losing share, even if it isn't me or isn't you. It is still happening, and I don't want to see it.

06-17-2007, 03:03 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
But wouldn't a cropped sensor 80-200/2.8 be much smaller than the FA* version?

Actually, I both need and want neither lens. Nor would I buy them. Even so, I think Pentax is being flatly stupid in thinking that people are comparing angles of view to the 35mm counterparts - for the vast majority they aren't. It is where Pentax is losing share, even if it isn't me or isn't you. It is still happening, and I don't want to see it.
Hmmm, so Pentax should have made a DA* 28-70 instead of the 16-50mm?
Not many will agree with you... bcs almost everybody compares angles of view to the 35mm counterparts!

Btw I understand that some ppl want a 80-200mm f2.8 lens, I know there is a need for such a lens... but some others are perfectly happy with the 50-135
06-17-2007, 04:08 PM   #48
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I still want an SDM 70/80-200 F2.8 I dont care. I use mine (sigma) all the time and can not go withough the extra reach anymore. I am used to haveing a almost 300 F2.8 on the long end in such a small package
If I would go with the 50-135, than I would be stuck carying a 200 F2.8 too and I dont like that.
06-17-2007, 04:27 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrendanPK Quote
I still want an SDM 70/80-200 F2.8 I dont care. I use mine (sigma) all the time and can not go withough the extra reach anymore. I am used to haveing a almost 300 F2.8 on the long end in such a small package
If I would go with the 50-135, than I would be stuck carying a 200 F2.8 too and I dont like that.
Exactly my thinking, Brendan. The isolation and reach of the Sigma is why it's a permanent member of my camera bag. A nice compact DA60-210/2.8 would be a dream lens for me.

Cheers,
-Asad

06-17-2007, 04:36 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lazar Quote
Hmmm, so Pentax should have made a DA* 28-70 instead of the 16-50mm?
Sorry, no. I already said that it makes a difference on the wide end - 28mm is no longer 'wide'.

And of course people compare to 35mm focal lengths, but with telephotos they are psyched that their 200mm "becomes" a 300mm. Try explaining that they didn't really want the 300mm view but rather the "classic" 200mm view...it won't work.
06-17-2007, 06:50 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrendanPK Quote
I still want an SDM 70/80-200 F2.8 I dont care. I use mine (sigma) all the time and can not go withough the extra reach anymore. I am used to haveing a almost 300 F2.8 on the long end in such a small package
If I would go with the 50-135, than I would be stuck carying a 200 F2.8 too and I dont like that.
I agree 100%. I am desperate for this lens. From ANYONE!

As long as I have one in my hands by August I'll be ok. If not I'll be handing away work to Canon shooters
06-17-2007, 07:11 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asad_Masede Quote
Exactly my thinking, Brendan. The isolation and reach of the Sigma is why it's a permanent member of my camera bag. A nice compact DA60-210/2.8 would be a dream lens for me.

Cheers,
-Asad
IMO I really think they should re-tool the 60-250 F4 into a 60-200 F2.8 Its wanted more than anything from everyone. Granted the extra 50mm would be nice too but would become really big and heavy being F2.8 and with it being F4 its not fast enough for me for a tell.
I have gotten away with the 16-45F4 only because of the wideness, and I usually am close enough to use a slow-sync flash with it to freeze whats up close. But with a tell it doesnt work as well.
I do think pentax is missing a MAJOR ball on this decision. People are used to using a standard 70/80-200 F2.8 on their DSLR's and like the reach. I often use it inbetween 100-200mm yah when we were all film people we delt with the shortness and often added a 1.4x converter when light permitted (by us I mean action and photojournalists) None the less a digital equvilent to a 70-200 IMO is not acceptable as a replacement for a real 70/80-200.
Granted the size of the 50-135 is nice, but it still does not have the reach, and Pentax STILL does not have AF teliconverters, let-alone ones that are SDM compatible to supplement the lacking of reach, and they still kill a stop or more of light. so were back to the F-speed problems again. UGG. Sigma will get a HUGE chunck of sales if they would come out with a HSM 70-200 F2.8 for pentax. I know I would buy it, and I have the older standard F2.8 (non DG) Its still and will probaly be forever the only non-Pentax lens I use everyday because I cannot justify a used FA* at 2+K and Pentax wont make a new model
06-18-2007, 12:24 AM   #53
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Will these DA*s require a special teleconverter so SDM still works, or will existing ones be okay do you think? As whether it's 60-200 or 60-250 more reach will still be required by some.

06-18-2007, 01:39 AM   #54
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Well, seeing how much time it took Pentax to release the 16-50mm and the 50-135mm, you can wait at least 2-3 years until a new DA* zoom (except for the already announced 60-250mm of course) is released... until then you will have to use what's available (I guess Sigma and Tamron will release their 70-200mm for Pentax, but it means no SDM and weather-sealing)

Of course Pentax could restart producing the FA* 80-200mm... but I doubt they will!
06-18-2007, 06:49 PM   #55
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Pentax is making a huge mistake thinking photographers want "35mm" view with their aps lenses. Heres why. All day long get people in looking at the Pentax K100D, K10D kits with 18-55 and the beautiful 50-200. Problem is Canon kits push a 300 zoom. I can tell them that 200 on aps is like 300 on film. Then they ask me what the 300 is like on the Canon - ouch. Canon makes very few aps lenses. Most are full frame 35. Only time I want 35 equivalents is in wideangle (which Pentax has covered quite well). Pentax needs some big lenses in both speed and focal length. They think people won't buy them- they are wrong. People are buying more expensive lenses than I have ever seen in photography! Its amazing. LBA. Pentax actually told my customer to call Sigma for a big tele.
thanks
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06-18-2007, 09:27 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
I can tell them that 200 on aps is like 300 on film. Then they ask me what the 300 is like on the Canon - ouch.
I'm not disagreeing, but if the person you're talking with doesn't care about the way it was on film, you could talk about field of view instead -- "The 200mm lens gives you a narrowest across-the-frame field of view of 7 on Pentax dSLRs. On a low-end or medium-end Canon dSLR, it'd give you a field of view of 6, but on their higher-end models, it'd be 8 or 10 -- which would be like 175mm or 135mm on current Pentax cameras."
06-19-2007, 10:12 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I'm not disagreeing, but if the person you're talking with doesn't care about the way it was on film, you could talk about field of view instead -- "The 200mm lens gives you a narrowest across-the-frame field of view of 7 on Pentax dSLRs. On a low-end or medium-end Canon dSLR, it'd give you a field of view of 6, but on their higher-end models, it'd be 8 or 10 -- which would be like 175mm or 135mm on current Pentax cameras."
And you've just lost a customer. Too confusing for your typical "just want good pictures" customer.

I agree with a lot of others that Pentax's idea of sticking with 35mm focal lenghts is a bad idea. There's a reason why a lot of amateur film photographers never went longer than 200-300mm, and it wasn't because they preferred those focal lenghts, it was because anything longer was just too expensive! One of the greatest advantages to the APS format is the 1.5x addition to the long end, why would we want to lose that? Obviously a long zoom matters, or we wouldn't have 15x-18x superzoom P&S's on the market. A lot of customers coming up from P&S's are going to look at Pentax with it's 50-200, 50-135, 60-250, etc, and then look at Nikon/Canon with their 70-300's, 100-300's, or longer, and which do you think they'd choose? Quality differences don't matter as much as you might think, as the amount of relatively ignorant photographers migrating up to DSLR's is increasing exponentially (I know this from working at Ritz Camera for 3 years). All the customer is going to see is that they can get a cheap $150-$200 lens from Canon/Nikon that will give them a longer zoom than anything Pentax offers.

Novices notwithstanding, what about the rest of us that know what we're doing but can't afford professional lenses, yet still want good quality long zooms? I doubt the 50-300 that's scheduled is going to be any more than a consumer grade lens, probably worse than the current 50-200 because of the extra reach. And with 3rd party lenses there's a pretty big gap between the cheap consumer $200 lenses and the professional $900+ lenses. So I'm still stuck in the same situation that I've always been in with film cameras, not being able to afford anything longer than 300mm film equiv.
06-19-2007, 10:43 AM   #58
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Tamron is going to make a killing with their upcoming 70-200/2.8 Di. From what I gather that lens will be even cheaper priced than the Sigma equivalent. Heck I probably will buy the Tamron as a second 70-200/2.8 as backup.

Still trying to figure out WHAT I would do with a 50-135. (I is the keyword here)

Cheers,
-Asad
06-19-2007, 11:46 AM   #59
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I guess I see things a little differently than the majority. The 50-135 is the one lens I'm really interested as it's about ideal for tight landscapes and portraits. I never viewed it as a 'long lens solution' and I honestly don't think that was the intent when they designed it. Mind you, an 80-200mm lens on film was never really THAT long to begin with either.

When Pentax starts aiming for 400mm and beyond, then I'll start looking for a new long lens solution to my existing lens, but until then I think the 50-135 has a pretty strong role to play in my photography for just what it is; a mid-range telephoto which (provided it delivers the goods) will replace my cheap Tamron 70-300 for that role.
06-19-2007, 01:03 PM   #60
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I dont see whats the problem - people are complaining about P&S users coming up and looking at el cheapo Canon/Nikon glass and getting that since Pentax's longest reaching cheap lens is the 50-200, well I am sure that is exactly why they are releasing the 55-300. Of course I wont buy one but they are playing the market.

To boot - thew others have a 70-300 with a gap of 15mm with their el cheapo kit zooms with the Pentax theyre going to get 18-55,55-300. The upcoming 17-70 will also be a good consumer grade lens.

As for serious work - THE best 70-200 currently is the Canon 70-200 L f/4 IS. Not the f/2.8 - just read the reviews and read the comments by Canon users - sure the 70-200-f/2.8 is very popular and people buy it and then usually use it then at f/4 to get better results when the 70-200-f/4 lens gives better results wide-open at f/4. Pentax will hopefully give us a lens with more reach/versatility and still a fast f/4 aperture and hopefully comparable quality to the Canon offerings. I dont see the big deal. If you want a 70-200 f/2.8 get the Sigma or upcoming Tamron. Personally if Pentax offered a 70-200 f/2.8 also I would still go for the 60-250 f/4 as its more versatile and I really dont need the f/2.8 - especially now with digital SLR's producing way better results in high ISO than old film standard. Just my opinion of course.
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