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01-13-2010, 06:52 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
SLR's require highly sophisticated mechanics, especially given today's very high frame rates. P&S and EVIL are comparatively simple technology. Any company that makes a p&s camera can make an EVIL camera, whereas the only way to make a dslr is to buy out one of the existing players.
Panasonic introduced its first dSLR in 2006 and its second in 2008. Both disappeared like stones in the proverbial sea...

01-13-2010, 07:01 AM   #107
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Panasonic has lots of fans, people who own other brands

Panasonic has lots of fans thesedays, people who own other brands are adding Panny m4/3 for its small size.


And I do mean SMALL SIZE. Comparision gear images are in the thread linked below.


Panasonic are late to the party yet they already offer a highly coveted 14-28mm equivilent zoom. Some images from it are included in the 1st thread below.


If smaller interchangeable lens cameras are better, then Panasonic m4/3 wins.


GH1 is half the weight of Pentax K-7 and Panasonic offers a 14-28mm equivilent zoom lens.


Panasonic 7-14 m4/3 lens - FM Forums




Here's Panasonic G-1, the first of their m4/3:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg1/


The GH-1 Panny, their second m4/3:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgh1/
01-13-2010, 07:30 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Panasonic is huge and highly successful electronics company with a lot of relevant resources. They've been very strong in the p&s market for a long time, and an EVIL has a lot more in common with p&s than it has with SLR. In fact I can't think of any way that an EVIL differs from a bridge cam, other than the lens can be detached.
What has impressed me about Panasonic is not so much that they've developed the first EVIL or even the fastest autofocusing non-DSLR, that kind of thing should be expected of huge electronics companies (note: Samsung is right behind); what has impressed me about Panasonic is that they actually seem to understand what photographers want in a small camera.

While Canon and everyone else was making fairly large super zoom bridge cameras Panasonic struck gold with their pocket sized TZ line of super-zoom's. Prior to m4/3's everyone was clamoring for a lower megapixel P&S with a fast lens and good manual controls, so they made the LX3 while no one else listened. Now with m4/3's their lens line-up (as well as their lens road map) is far more appealing then Olympus' (a traditional camera and optical company). While Olympus is focusing on f/5.6 variable aperture zooms Panasonic has already created a 20mm f/1.7 pancake (one-upping Olympus' one and only interesting lens, their 17mm/2.8). They also have a 45mm Leica-branded macro prime, as well as a constant f/4 aperture ultra-wide. On top of that they have a 14mm f/2.8 in the works...where as Olympus has announced no other serious lenses (they've just announced lenses to make soccer moms of the world happy). So in the last few years it seems as though a giant electronics company has managed to understand what a street or travel photographer wants/needs more than any of the traditional camera makers (sans Leica). That's pretty amazing as well as pretty sad on the part of Nikon and Canon.
01-13-2010, 09:14 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
What has impressed me about Panasonic is not so much that they've developed the first EVIL or even the fastest autofocusing non-DSLR, that kind of thing should be expected of huge electronics companies (note: Samsung is right behind); what has impressed me about Panasonic is that they actually seem to understand what photographers want in a small camera...

...So in the last few years it seems as though a giant electronics company has managed to understand what a street or travel photographer wants/needs more than any of the traditional camera makers (sans Leica). That's pretty amazing as well as pretty sad on the part of Nikon and Canon.
This is absolutely true and is further evidence of just how cautious and conservative most of the traditional cameramakers are. I mentioned in an earlier post that typical hard-core photo enthusiasts tend to be just as conservative. But a big consumer-electronics company like Panasonic isn't catering to just hard-core enthusiasts. It plans on bringing in a lot of the general consumer market to micro four-thirds... and is using the resources it already has to gauge market preferences to produce appealing products. Success feeds success.

As Samsungian says, many people who own other camera systems are adding Panasonic's micro four-thirds cameras and lenses as a second system. I personally have a Panasonic LX3 already and may very well add something like a G1 unless they produce a rangefinder-alike with a built-in viewfinder. A viewfinder is important to me. But I'll always keep my Pentax system and even continue to build upon it.

01-13-2010, 11:01 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
where as Olympus has announced no other serious lenses (they've just announced lenses to make soccer moms of the world happy).
I agree that the Panasonic lens lineup for m43 has been much better than the Olympus one so far. However, Olympus have announced 9-18mm f4-5.6 and a 12mm prime lenses for Micro Four Thirds, which I personally find interesting. They need more compact primes though.
01-13-2010, 11:15 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
I agree that the Panasonic lens lineup for m43 has been much better than the Olympus one so far. However, Olympus have announced 9-18mm f4-5.6 and a 12mm prime lenses for Micro Four Thirds, which I personally find interesting. They need more compact primes though.
I wonder if Olympus is counting on the consumer to buy the adaptor and use the regular lenses?
01-13-2010, 11:26 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
I agree that the Panasonic lens lineup for m43 has been much better than the Olympus one so far. However, Olympus have announced 9-18mm f4-5.6 and a 12mm prime lenses for Micro Four Thirds
I hadn't heard about their 12mm, so that's great news, and indeed interesting. my ideal lens line up for that system would be 12mm/2.8, 25mm/1.4 and 50mm/1.4 pancakes. However I could make do with Panasonic's 20mm/1.7 instead of a 25mm. That means by the end of the year hopefully they'll only be missing one lens I need.

As far as their 9-18mm. I believe that is another collapsible lens. One of the reasons I sold my E-P1 was because of that collapsible lens design. It was just too cheaply made and felt like it would fall apart. While I like the idea in theory, I hope they execute it much better than the did with the 14-42mm. But still, like DPR said, this system begs for fast small primes and that is what I want. I have no interest in zooms.
01-13-2010, 11:27 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Panasonic introduced its first dSLR in 2006 and its second in 2008. Both disappeared like stones in the proverbial sea...
Was that in alliance with Leica, or a solo effort?

01-13-2010, 12:28 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I hadn't heard about their 12mm
It's not 100% confirmed as a 12mm, some speculate it could be 11mm. The information is based on their lens roadmap:
http://43rumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/zuiko_lens_eng.png

QuoteQuote:
As far as their 9-18mm. I believe that is another collapsible lens.
It does not look collapsible to me, but I could be wrong:
http://43rumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Olympus_9-18mm_lens1.jpg
01-13-2010, 12:41 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
It does not look collapsible to me, but I could be wrong:
I hope it's not, but it sure looks like there's a locking switch on the left side of it in this pic:
http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0911/olympus/lens/lenses.jpg
01-13-2010, 12:43 PM   #116
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You are right, there is a switch there. Not else what else could it be but that .

There's not just the build quality issues but also the issue that your camera isn't ready for shooting while in transport mode, right?
01-13-2010, 01:49 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
There's not just the build quality issues but also the issue that your camera isn't ready for shooting while in transport mode, right?
Yep, but its not as big of a deal as you may think. After you get used to unlocking the lens it becomes second nature. I routinely did it on the fly the second I noticed something worth shooting. So I think it's a worthwhile idea, they just need to execute it better. Perhaps just use a single cam design instead of a duo cam because with the duo cam it just gets too wobbly. That 9-18mm is rumored to be $600, I don't see how they can demand that price if it's as cheaply made as the 14-42mm. I sure know I wouldn't pay that much for a wobbly plastic lens. So hopefully the 9-18mm is a much higher grade.
01-13-2010, 02:07 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Was that in alliance with Leica, or a solo effort?
The picture here shows a Leica-badged lens:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

Besides the optics though, I'm not sure what expertise Leica could offer Panasonic that they don't already have.

ducking...
01-13-2010, 02:40 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Yep, but its not as big of a deal as you may think.
OK. I know I hated the 3-second delay before shooting on my compact camera, but if you say it' s not like that then perhaps there is still hope.

QuoteQuote:
it just gets too wobbly.
I've never understood really... this wobbleness - does it impact image quality as lens elements get misaligned? Or is it just something that makes you trust their longevity less but doesn't really change things much?

QuoteQuote:
That 9-18mm is rumored to be $600, I don't see how they can demand that price if it's as cheaply made as the 14-42mm.
I think it' s because the only alternative is the Pana 7-14 for $1100 (and it's out of stock). Or the much larger and heavier Oly 7-14 + adapter for $1500 + $200.

Last edited by juu; 01-13-2010 at 02:51 PM.
01-13-2010, 02:45 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
I've never understood really... this wobbleness - does it impact image quality as lens elements get misaligned? Or is it just something that makes you trust their longevity less but doesn't really change things much?
It certainly doesn't inspire confidence in it's longevity, but basically I simply can't stand cheaply made cameras and lenses. However, I thought the optical quality of it was outstanding for cheap f/5.6 kit lens.

My other main lens for my E-P1 was a Voigtlander 40mm f/1.4 and when I mounted it on there it totally transformed the E-P1 into something that felt like a real camera. It still didn't feel as nice as my Pentax LX or Nikon FE2 of course, but it did help.
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