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01-06-2010, 12:21 PM   #1
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Pentax Should Build an EVIL Camera

I stumbled across this article at dpreview.com today. It's a wish list for fast primes for the micro four-thirds system and other non-DSLR, interchangeable-lens cameras that are likely to hit the market over the next year.

On Lenses For Small Cameras: dpreview.com Editorial blog: Digital Photography Review

It seems to me that Pentax, with its lineup of DA Limited pancake primes, is particularly well-positioned to enter this market with little trouble. Yes, Pentax still needs to make some faster DA pancakes. But even as the lineup stands right now, Pentax might be able to leapfrog over micro four-thirds and similar APS-C cameras - at least among serious photographic enthusiasts. That's if they act quickly enough.

One other thought... if Samsung provides a good Pentax adaptor for its NX1 - assuming the camera offers the image quality many of us want - the DA primes might be the perfect complement. But I'm not sure what the adaptor would do to the overal package size.

Any thoughts?

01-06-2010, 12:42 PM   #2
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NO

at some time in the future, when an electronic shutter can be mated to an ASP-C sensor, then perhaps, but even then I would vote for an optical viewer

My P&S is an EV camera and while it is OK in bright light, at night the view finder is useless.
01-06-2010, 12:42 PM   #3
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An intersting article Biro. The only problem I can see with Pentax using its current pancake lenses is the distance between the sensor and the back of the lens. If it is the distance that is used at the moment the comera would not be that compact, which is the point of this type of camera. If it made the distance smaller the lenses would not focus properly.
This is why Olyimpus and Panasonic decided to use the new micro 4thirds system. But if Pentax did decide to introduce a new lens mount their experience in producing realy good pancake lenses would be a big advantage.
01-06-2010, 12:42 PM   #4
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Tell me about it, I started a thread a year and a half ago saying that Pentax should make an EVIL system. Yet, here we still are with EVIL's generating buzz...and Pentax sitting by watching.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/33971-will-pentax-comp...icro-4-3s.html

I 100% agree with DPR though. I wanted a small "serious" camera so badly I rushed out and bought an E-P1 the first week it came out, then sold it two months later. The system just isn't ready yet. Sure, you can mount Leica glass on (which is what I did), but who in their right mind wants to pay $800-$4000 per lens for a $700 camera that wasn't designed for them in the first place? Plus, on the E-P1 specifically it just became too much of a hassle toggling between manual focus zoom mode and back out to normal. I love to manual focus, but I want the manual focus zoom to engage the second I turn the focus ring just like it does with native lenses.

So I've decided once again to wait it out. I don't care who does it first, but whomever makes a small system with a COMPLETE set of pancake primes is who will get my cash one day.

01-06-2010, 12:51 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
NO

at some time in the future, when an electronic shutter can be mated to an ASP-C sensor, then perhaps, but even then I would vote for an optical viewer

My P&S is an EV camera and while it is OK in bright light, at night the view finder is useless.
That's the beauty of EVIL's...they're free to do whatever they want. There is no reason they couldn't make an EVIL range finder with auto focus. You'd have a huge bright optical viewfinder for use up to 90mm's or so, then for telephoto stuff you can just use the rear LCD. An EVIL/rangefinder hybrid if you will. That would solve all of a rangefinders short comings (no AF, no telephotos). Of course I say the likelihood of such a camera being produced is next to zero.

Or, they could include a good version of the optical zoom view finder found on the Canon G10...there are so many options...
01-06-2010, 01:12 PM   #6
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Biro,
After reading way too many posts on this subject, I can only conclude that Pentax pancake lenses are more suitable for small SLR cameras than small EVIL camera designs. The Pentax lenses with their 1970's registration distance will always be at a competitive body thickness disadvantage than a completely redesigned replaceable lens design. Most posters don't think the new Samsung NX design has much of a chance to succeed. Given that track record for new designs and the popularity of the small Kx, it doesn't make sense to me to jump from a successful series of Pentax bodies to a new risky area requiring new lenses and a new body design to compete.

Frankly, after two large Pentax SLRs, i'm considering the Kx only because it has a real optical viewfinder. after struggling with P&S viewfinders over the years, no way do i want to go back to one.

You do have me puzzled, with 5 very fine zooms in your signature line, i'm wondering why you haven't taken advantage of a small prime lens yourself at some point, the K200 isn't that large. If you want small and fast, the FA 50, FA 43, DA70, all fit that bill, at least compared to zooms in size and speed. I have had a lot of fun with the FA 50 f1.4
01-06-2010, 02:31 PM   #7
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I vote no.

My K-x with DA 40mm is as compact as it needs to be. A slightly thinner body wouldn't do anything for me -- it still wouldn't be pocketable and i'd need to carry a bag regardless.

The way I see it is that the camera either needs to fit in the pocket of my jeans, or it needs weight under 2lbs (size unimportant b/c ill be bringing a bag anyways)


I'd like a Panasonic LX3 with an upgraded sensor, backlit, perhaps!
01-06-2010, 03:12 PM   #8
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Why is this in the "News and Rumors" section? Isn't this more appropriate for DSLR Discussion or Everything Else?

01-06-2010, 03:15 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by erickallemeyn Quote
I vote no.

My K-x with DA 40mm is as compact as it needs to be. A slightly thinner body wouldn't do anything for me -- it still wouldn't be pocketable and i'd need to carry a bag regardless.

The way I see it is that the camera either needs to fit in the pocket of my jeans, or it needs weight under 2lbs (size unimportant b/c ill be bringing a bag anyways)
I can see that point of view also. However, even though the K-X is small it still won't fit into a coat pocket like a GF1/20mm will.

If Pentax wants to stick with DSLR's that's fine, but they should make a truly portable one. They should make a digital ME Super...metal body HUGE prism (no pentamirrors), lose the front grip. They'd have to make due with just one thumb dial instead of dual dials like the K7 has, but that's ok. The only time I need two dials is when shooting manual mode, and anytime I'm shooting full manual time real isn't a concern. I always have time to toggle aperture/shutter speed on the one single dial.
01-06-2010, 03:16 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Biro,
After reading way too many posts on this subject, I can only conclude that Pentax pancake lenses are more suitable for small SLR cameras than small EVIL camera designs. The Pentax lenses with their 1970's registration distance will always be at a competitive body thickness disadvantage than a completely redesigned replaceable lens design.
In fact, the registration distance of Pentax has always been the same since the first Asahiflex from 1952. That's why there's millions of USABLE legacy lenses available.
01-06-2010, 03:19 PM   #11
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I also vote no.

The K-x is small enough. If I wanted a smaller camera I would've gotten a point and shoot instead.

Because the APS-C DSLR does have a larger sensor than the micro 4/3rds, these EVIL's on top of having a worse viewfinder, it will limit it's ability to pack as much pixels and power as the APS-C.

A DSLR is a camera designed to have a real viewfinder for a reason, designed to have generate the IQ that it does for a reason, and designed to have all these buttons for a reason. As I said if, I wanted smaller I would've gone with a point and shoot despite the fact that these EVILs don't have the IQ of a real DSLR.

I bought a DSLR for a reason and the K-x is as small as small can be for a interchangeable lens camera for me, I want to hold a DSLR in my hand and feel it as a camera, not a DSLR in my hand and feel it as a point and shoot. If I wanted IQ, I would go with the DSLR, if I wanted compact and small for my pocket, I would've gone with point and shoot; what's the point of EVILs? It's small and lacks many features of the DSLR, and yet you still have to invest in lenses the same way you would with a DSLR without the power.

There's absolutely no point of going EVIL, it's just another format that wasn't necessary in the first place. It only attracts attention to the newcomers due to the fact that it looks retro, fit, and cool. People who choose to buy a DSLR will most likely go for Canikon. With these smaller companies having no chance with these big boys to make top dollar, they came up with this new format to attract newer consumers who want it instead of the DSLR, without Canikon in the EVIL market, they know that they have a chance to start from scratch to compete against the APS-C DSLR with these EVIL formats.
01-06-2010, 03:32 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
.I would've gone with a point and shoot despite the fact that these EVILs don't have the IQ of a real DSLR.
I guess by your logic Pentax doesn't have any real DSLR's since they don't make a camera with a sensor as large as a D700's right? Obviously an Olympus E-30 isn't a real DSLR for that reason also. I mean, that camera obviously has horrendous IQ. Is the K10D not a real DSLR either? Because I've owned both the K10D and an E-P1 and the E-P1 blew it away in every single IQ category I can think of (as it should since it's newer).

Pentaxians are a funny bunch, they'll say people only buy full frame to show off one moment, then put down 4/3's for being smaller than APS-C the next.

QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
It's small and lacks many features of the DSLR, and yet you still have to invest in lenses the same way you would with a DSLR without the power.
Also, what is this mystical power you speak of that a K-x possesses that a Panasonic GH1 doesn't? Both are similar size, both have view finders (yes, the GH1's is an EVF, but it is also MUCH larger than the K-x's), both AF about the same speed. What am I missing here?
01-06-2010, 03:39 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I guess by your logic Pentax doesn't have any real DSLR's since they don't make a camera with a sensor as large as a D700's right? Obviously an Olympus E-30 isn't a real DSLR for that reason also. I mean, that camera obviously has horrendous IQ. Is the K10D not a real DSLR either? Because I've owned both the K10D and an E-P1 and the E-P1 blew it away in every single IQ category I can think of (as it should since it's newer).

Pentaxians are a funny bunch, they'll say people only buy full frame to show off one moment, then put down 4/3's for being smaller than APS-C the next.
Sorry if I offended you Art Vandelay II. When I say DSLR, I meant for both APS-C and Full Frame, a DSLR doesn't necessarily mean it has to be full frame, a SLR is a single lens reflex and the mirror is what makes that reflex. Therefore APS-C or full frame, it's still a DSLR. The thing is Full frame is significantly higher in price than the APS-C, especially the price differential from Full Frame to the entry-level. The fact that the cheapest APS-C is already cheap and affordable, the EVIL is quit expensive for what it offers against that APS-C.

Yes you are correct that the K10D is of old age and the E-P1 is bound to have higher IQ. But the fact is a lot of newer APS-C DSLR's out today are boasting incredible high ISO IQ already, the D90, D5000, K-x, A500, etc. The next batch of APS-C's that will come out this year and the years to come will be very impressive in terms of high ISO.

For me, I have never said I would buy a full frame. What I stated was solely on my opinion and I don't think it's necessary to generalize all Pentaxians with the same thought as mine. There are some posts on this forum that are also not from this thread, where there are people agreeing of Pentax making an EVIL. So not necessarily are you isolated in wanting an EVIL alone as there are other Pentaxians who think opposite of me.
01-06-2010, 03:51 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote

at some time in the future, when an electronic shutter can be mated to an ASP-C sensor, then perhaps, but even then I would vote for an optical viewer
Isn't the Samsung NX-10 APS-C?

I don't know if it has an electronic shutter or not.
01-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
Isn't the Samsung NX-10 APS-C?

I don't know if it has an electronic shutter or not.
There are already some other APS-C's out there who do have electronic shutters, such as the Nikon D40. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all EVILs have a electronic shutter because they don't have a mirror.
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