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01-27-2010, 07:56 AM   #46
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Not redundant; by making the new body smaller and increasing the LCD's size, some buttons had to go. Now we have two buttons where the bracketing button were...
USER, hmm... could they put more USER settings on the K-7's successor? Only the mode wheel would need to be changed, no extra buttons. Even 2 (e.g. USER A and USER B) would be fine.

01-27-2010, 08:52 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
No, that's not right.

On the K7 it is:
Drive button - click right - click right - click right - click right - click down - wheel - done.

And remember to put it back.
Nothing for easy switching back and forth.
You only need to press "down" and use the wheels if its not already set to what you need. It remembers the settings from each time you use it. And it's only that many "right clicks" if you're at single shot to begin with, which I never am.

Seriously, this is semantics. Using this as the sole reason not to upgrade to a K-7 is silly. There are many other good reasons besides this pointless "issue".
01-27-2010, 09:13 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoremanX Quote
Using this as the sole reason not to upgrade to a K-7 is silly. There are many other good reasons besides this pointless "issue".

Well, then you probably wouldn't want to hear my other reason why I do not upgrade: The K7 is too small for my hands.

Oh yeah, that's silly ...
01-27-2010, 09:25 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote

Well, then you probably wouldn't want to hear my other reason why I do not upgrade: The K7 is too small for my hands.

Oh yeah, that's silly ...
Nah, that's one of the good reasons!

01-27-2010, 03:19 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
No, that's not right.

On the K20 it is:
Bracket button - wheel - done.

On the K7 it is:
Drive button - click right - click right - click right - click right - click down - wheel - done.

And remember to put it back.
Nothing for easy switching back and forth.

The bracketing button was a great innovative idea. It is a pity that Pentax abandoned it.
I agree, i really like how the K20 sets up bracketing. In addition to what you said, there is an option in the Custom manual that lets one have 1 click initiation of all 3 or 5 bracketing shots. No reason to hold the shutter button down till finished.

I am glad to hear on a follow post that one can save bracketing to a USER item on the K7. The K20 is limited to about 3 or less frames per second, but with SR, i've done some quite sharp HDR at that frame rate so don't consider the frame rate to be a liability. Now that i think about it, i should put my HDR settings on the User option on the mode dial. be slightly easier than i'm doing it now. thanks for the idea.
01-27-2010, 07:52 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
No, that's not right.

On the K20 it is:
Bracket button - wheel - done.

On the K7 it is:
Drive button - click right - click right - click right - click right - click down - wheel - done.

And remember to put it back.
Nothing for easy switching back and forth.

The bracketing button was a great innovative idea. It is a pity that Pentax abandoned it.
You can also go drive, click left x2, click down, done.
Good point though. However for "Fn" button types like myself it is still a step in the right direction.

I'd love to see the bracket button on the top instead of the EV, and a secondary EV push button click and turn on the back dial like the Panny GF1. Coupled with LV, I think it would be extremely quick to drop the histogram in the right spot.
01-27-2010, 07:57 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Not redundant; by making the new body smaller and increasing the LCD's size, some buttons had to go. Now we have two buttons where the bracketing button were...
USER, hmm... could they put more USER settings on the K-7's successor? Only the mode wheel would need to be changed, no extra buttons. Even 2 (e.g. USER A and USER B) would be fine.
And put the USER 1 and USER 2 on the other side of the green and movie mode settings on the dial......next to program or manual. Maybe one on either side.
01-28-2010, 05:31 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
You can also go drive, click left x2, click down, done.
Again, the down isn't necessary at all if you already had it set to the right option. But that's a good point on pressing "left" instead of "right". You just shrunk it down to all of 3 button presses.

01-31-2010, 11:46 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
From my first coupla weeks of HDR use, I've realized that HDR (i include both tone mapping and blending in that term), is the photographic tool i've always wanted. I now understand the wisdom of Pentax including the HDR filter in the K7 camera. A recent thread in the software forum by me ( ) indicates that HDR is only a new tool to a few, as most replies were from folks that were using it.

Both the K7 and the Kx get good marks for HDR capability in an article by Jack Howard "2009 HDR All Stars" .

2009 HDR All-Stars from Adorama Learning Center

this quote is from the Jack Howard's link:
"Photographers who are serious about High Dynamic Range Imaging know that one of the secrets to creating powerful tone mapped images resides in cameras that can quickly and effectively capture a truly wide dynamic range of source images. And the two camera features that really put these HDR All-star cameras ahead of the rest are Auto Exposure Bracketing settings and burst rate.

True, any camera with manual controls can be used for bracketing shots for an HDR sequence, but the less you have to touch your camera between shots, and the more rapidly a camera can capture a bracketed series of shots, the less chance youíll encounter alignment and/or ghosting issues due to movement between frames.

The criteria for selecting these 2009 HDR All-Star Cameras is actually quite simple: a one shutter touch Auto Exposure Bracket Sequence that covers a minimum of -3 to +3 EV span around the median exposure and the ability to capture this exposure range span in RAW mode in 1 second or less. Thereís many cameras in market that will capture a bracket series of shots up to +/-2, but the extra dynamic range headroom of a +/-3 (and upwards) EV span really sets these cameras apart from the pack for serious HDR pho9tographers."


If you look at the whole article, then you find out that:
a) Jack thought that the K7 could auto exposure bracket up to +- 3 EV, but Dpreview only shows max steps of 2 EV as in the K20. Does anyone know if its 3 EV capable or 2EV like the K20?
In addition the K7 and K20 can only auto bracket a series of 3 or 5 steps.

b) for entry level dslrs, the Kx is not doing bad with max step of +- 1.5 EV and 3 images.

I think HDR is the next megapixel or shutter race, Pentax needs to improve the Auto bracketing settings to match the competition. These are the top of the line specs to strive for (as in Canon 1D Mark IV(7 images, up to 3EV step), Nikon D3 (9 images-1EVstep ), Nikon D300s (9 images-1EV step)

Pentax needs to stay competitive in the HDR race. They aren't doing bad now, but it should be easy for them to make the necessary changes. And don't neglect the follow-on to the Kx, it needs a larger +-2 EV step and the 3 or 5 image options of the K20 at least.

I WISH these changes would happen so i have no source, other than the Jack Howard article on what he thinks makes for a good HDR camera.
If Pentax is to stay competitive? HDR should be the last thing on their minds! They should concentrate their research and development skills on providing the punters with fast auto-focus, lower ISO settings, less gimmicks and take on Canon & Nikon at their own game, quality cameras for photographers. Those who want to play around with HDR, buy a program, not a camera. for Pentax to survive it needs quality cameras and lenses, not gimmicks.
01-31-2010, 12:53 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rees Quote
If Pentax is to stay competitive? HDR should be the last thing on their minds! They should concentrate their research and development skills on providing the punters with fast auto-focus, lower ISO settings, less gimmicks and take on Canon & Nikon at their own game, quality cameras for photographers. Those who want to play around with HDR, buy a program, not a camera. for Pentax to survive it needs quality cameras and lenses, not gimmicks.
That's both true and false. Canon and Nikon already have the reputation for quality, so it would be nice if Pentax could concentrate on catching up in the areas of autofocus and low-light performance (although I feel they already have that last aspect nailed with the K-x).

But once they're on par in those areas? What's left then? They end up being "the third wheel". Yet another company with quality cameras. The "gimmicks", as you call them, are the added value that makes Pentax stand out. The bracketing tools included in the K-7 are an excellent example of useful features that allow photographers to be more creative, and make the camera stand out from the pack. I'm not referring to the in-camera HDR (although that could get better eventually), but things like exposure bracketing, white balance bracketing, saturation bracketing, contrast bracketing and all kinds of other things. They've got the bracketing thing down, and this not only gets the attention of HDR photographers but also builds interest in HDR photography in the first place.

And that's only one example. The Pentax-exclusive shooting modes may seem like gimmicks to some photographers, but many people have found excellent uses for them. That makes those shooting modes a selling point that Nikon and Canon don't have.

The list of "gimmicks" goes on and on. It's those Pentax-exclusive "gimmicks" that got my attention in the first place. A compact body in a semi-pro camera? A built-in electronic level? In-camera RAW processing? Silly filters to deform images? (I entertained my family for hours with that feature at the last Christmas party, never thought I'd actually make use of it). A single Green button that adds so much versatility and customization?

I say "BRING ON THE GIMMICKS! ...and better auto-focus performance.
02-01-2010, 07:53 AM   #56
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HDR on body is only a trick (that you can resolve easy using a program without the small processor and rom present on a camera).
A lot better a real native improve on the dynamic range of the sensor but for this are necessary big changes on the sensor ...
02-09-2010, 10:55 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexfoto Quote
HDR on body is only a trick (that you can resolve easy using a program without the small processor and rom present on a camera).
A lot better a real native improve on the dynamic range of the sensor but for this are necessary big changes on the sensor ...
Alex,
I don't particularly care whether a camera has in-body HDR processing or not. But the 5 image exposure bracketing option in the K7, K20 and K10 is pretty unusual in the SLR market. A fellow K20 owner in our photo club looked at me during a recent meeting and said: "Phil we are so lucky to have a camera body that will do HDR bracketing so easily - i've been looking at the SLR market and its pretty unusual"

Even the Canon 7D will only do 3 images, not 5. They do go to a max of 3 EV between images, but the Pentax 2 EV between images gives Pentax a 8 EV additional range to the sensor vice the 6 EV total for the Canon 7D. Some of the top end Nikon cameras go to 7 or 9 images with max 1 EV steps, but its unusual for SLRs at Pentax cost to provide that sort of 3image or 5 image bracketing. So small 1/3 to 1 step improvements in the sensor would be nice, but frankly they don't compare to an HDR image for stationary subjects.

If you have never photo processed an HDR image before, you will have no idea how superior these image files are to a single image file as far as creative toning. Much less noise problems - i have yet to need to use noise software on an HDR image but individual mileage may vary :-)
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