[bjsmith]

This is awesome and if you think that this upgrade is worthless then you really need to look at it again.

I just bought my K100D some 6-7 weeks ago. I sure wish I would have waited. Then again, it's still probably going to be $100-150 more than I paid, and that will be in August. I really needed something this past month.

So for $150 less than a Nikon D40x you get full lens support across your brands spectrum, wonderful image quality, built-in shake reduction, SDM, Dust Reduction, 11 AF points vs 3.

This is key! To the "megapixel majority consumer," they won't care.
They will look at the Nikon D40x and go, "yeah, why would I only go with that 6MP camera."

But then you start factoring the reality that all Pentax KAF lenses work (unlike several Nikon AF lenses on the D40x -- does anyone know how much of a percentage do not?).
And then you add in all the extras, plus the two (2) new features, and it's still the better guy.

Basically Pentax just kicked everyones butt in the entry level Dslr realm with one easy upgrade!
IMHO it is going to be the easiest camera to sell because of it's now overly impressive feature set so maybe you don't want it, but the next Pentax camera they reveal will so just hold your horses.

The only thing it doesn't have is megapixel marketing.
Maybe Pentax should actually take that and use it to its advantage?

[arbutusq]

IMO i is a great entry level camera. The price point amd AA batteries will allow Pentax to establish a foothold in a lot of up and coming economies where an extra $100-200 is a far bigger deal than in the west/developed nations of Asia.

As to 6 mp, I get great 12-18 inch prints from my K100d and see no reason to go to 10 mp.

[RiceHigh]

The added DR function should be implemented as a firmware update to the K100D and it's easy and simple. But anyway it is a don't care case for me as it (the DR) is well known to be useless, as proven in the K10D already.

As for the SDM support, it just is something again "ought to be". Do remember there is still no SDM lens can be found at the streets yet. The coming ones are the Star zooms which are very expensive and twice the price of a K100D Super, why bother to use such a luxury lens on a cheap body btw?

[carpents]

This is awesome and if you think that this upgrade is worthless then you really need to look at it again.

So for $150 less than a Nikon D40x you get full lens support across your brands spectrum, wonderful image quality, built-in shake reduction, SDM, Dust Reduction, 11 AF points vs 3.

Basically Pentax just kicked everyones butt in the entry level Dslr realm with one easy upgrade!

IMHO it is going to be the easiest camera to sell because of it's now overly impressive feature set so maybe you don't want it, but the next Pentax camera they reveal will so just hold your horses.

It isn't worthless to those of us already in the Pentax camp. It is a big fat nothing to those outside.

If you think the D40x was a worse 'upgrade' for Nikon than this is for Pentax, then you're dreaming. AF points? Conventional wisdom is that Nikon/Canon have better autofocus than Pentax. In-lens motors? Nikon/Canon already have that. Image Quality? I don't even want to talk about the vast perception of Pentax JPEGs. So you're left with anti-shake - which the K100D already has. (Dust reduction is a joke. It doesn't work, and Canon now has it too.)

Just the fact that the D40 sold *at all* tells us that the vast majority of DSLR buyers aren't checking any sort of fact sheet about their cameras. Who would want a camera that is crippled to most of the producer's lenses?!

My point is that Pentax seems to take 'one step forward, one step back' when it comes to marketing. They really drove a perception of no innovation whatsoever with the DS/DS2/DL/DL2 product line - fairly or unfairly. I wonder how much of the current predicament - with takeovers/un-takeovers/takeovers again, delayed lenses, etc. - is a by-product of these non-upgrade upgrades?

I hope as much as everyone else that Pentax can release a great camera, better than the K10D, and take some of the market share from the bigger manufacturers. IMO these 'Super' upgrades aren't the way to do it.

[RiceHigh]

My thumb up. Well said, Carpents! That's the key point(s) for the problem(s)!

It isn't worthless to those of us already in the Pentax camp. It is a big fat nothing to those outside.

If you think the D40x was a worse 'upgrade' for Nikon than this is for Pentax, then you're dreaming. AF points? Conventional wisdom is that Nikon/Canon have better autofocus than Pentax. In-lens motors? Nikon/Canon already have that. Image Quality? I don't even want to talk about the vast perception of Pentax JPEGs. So you're left with anti-shake - which the K100D already has. (Dust reduction is a joke. It doesn't work, and Canon now has it too.)

Just the fact that the D40 sold *at all* tells us that the vast majority of DSLR buyers aren't checking any sort of fact sheet about their cameras. Who would want a camera that is crippled to most of the producer's lenses?!

My point is that Pentax seems to take 'one step forward, one step back' when it comes to marketing. They really drove a perception of no innovation whatsoever with the DS/DS2/DL/DL2 product line - fairly or unfairly. I wonder how much of the current predicament - with takeovers/un-takeovers/takeovers again, delayed lenses, etc. - is a by-product of these non-upgrade upgrades?

I hope as much as everyone else that Pentax can release a great camera, better than the K10D, and take some of the market share from the bigger manufacturers. IMO these 'Super' upgrades aren't the way to do it.

[ngkmh]

i have to disagree.

SDM and DR is a significant enough improvement to warrant a new camera version for an entry level DSLR

But as many guys have said, they need to follow up with lenses.

Hopefully, the release of an entry level camera with SDM will motivate Pentax and 3rd party vendors to release SDM lenses.

[Mike Cash]

Dust removal of probably dubious effectiveness and support for lenses I can't afford and probably wouldn't buy even if I could?

No thanks; happy with the plain and apparently now-obsolete K100D I bought 5 months ago. (Part of why these days I blow my money on antique cameras instead. They start out obsolete).

[kmccanta]

It would have been nice if they would put better voltage regulator logic so you could use Rechargeable CR-V3 (RCR-V3) batteries.

I do use R-CRV3. I got regulated ones from thomas-distributing. My only complaint is that one of the chargers doesnt work. Of course I rarely need to charge, so it hasnt been a problem. I am to lazy to try to get it replaced.

-k

[kmccanta]

I hope as much as everyone else that Pentax can release a great camera, better than the K10D, and take some of the market share from the bigger manufacturers. IMO these 'Super' upgrades aren't the way to do it.

I dont think this announcement is supposed to make everyone with a K10D go out and buy a new camera. This is instead, shoring up the bottom end of the line-up. When this body ships, and the new lenses ship, Pentax swill still be able to correctly claim fantastic compatibility which Pentax customers have raved about.

If Pentax did not do this, then they would have become N or C, forcing customers to choose the K10D to get SDM. Instead, you can choose SDM support and ISO3200 with usable noise. I still dont want 10mp. 6mp is great!

The model that will make me really want to upgrade my 6month old K100D is going to be when they replace the DS. Add the pentaprism viewfinder, TTL flash and throw in a split prism screen for under $50 ... I will be really tempted. I almost bought a used DS instead of the K100D. But the anti-shake and warranty tipped me to buy new.

But please, all of you complaining that this is a marketing mistake, please understand my opinion is that this is just not the announcement you are waiting for. The higher end model comes later. But this does add all the cool technology to the low end of Pentax's line-up.

[Mef]

I think that the K100D Super is a good move for Pentax.

Having the same model constantly upgraded is a good thing for everyone ( pentax and consumers ). And using components already used on others products too ( SR and DR from K10D ). Because it keeps the price as low as possible ( to manufacture, and to buy ).

I don't know what is the situation outside Paris, but here, you can't walk through public transportation without seeing pentax K100D everywhere ! No pentax ads, but resailers' ones. It's easy to understand that it's only due to the low price.

And if the SDM and DR are small upgrades for pentaxians, they add 2 new points to the quality/price ratio of K100D now Super for the resailers to advertise to new consumers.

[codiac2600]

The added DR function should be implemented as a firmware update to the K100D and it's easy and simple. But anyway it is a don't care case for me as it (the DR) is well known to be useless, as proven in the K10D already.

As for the SDM support, it just is something again "ought to be". Do remember there is still no SDM lens can be found at the streets yet. The coming ones are the Star zooms which are very expensive and twice the price of a K100D Super, why bother to use such a luxury lens on a cheap body btw?

RiceHigh your experiment you showed us is worthless and there is no real way to test it but use it and mine works so take your uneducated guess to another forum please.

[bjsmith]

i have to disagree. SDM and DR is a significant enough improvement to warrant a new camera version for an entry level DSLR

It's really more of a "new revision" than a "new version" -- not trying to be anal though.

But as many guys have said, they need to follow up with lenses.
Hopefully, the release of an entry level camera with SDM will motivate Pentax and 3rd party vendors to release SDM lenses.

Yes, especially if it puts more money in their pockets, Pentax -- especially now as Hoya -- needs to get more lenses out.
They could make a lot more money with that route IMHO.
Sales of bodies only go so far

I don't know what is the situation outside Paris, but here, you can't walk through public transportation without seeing pentax K100D everywhere ! No pentax ads, but resailers' ones. It's easy to understand that it's only due to the low price.
And if the SDM and DR are small upgrades for pentaxians, they add 2 new points to the quality/price ratio of K100D now Super for the resailers to advertise to new consumers.

That's what it's all about, delivering customer value -- at a point you still make money.
And since they can't challenge Canon or Nikon's distribution lock, at least in the west, it's really up to consumers and word-of-mouth.
And that begins with designing products that are "good enough" at a much, much better price point, especially when "good enough" is the same price as "no feature/equivalent included."

I dont think this announcement is supposed to make everyone with a K10D go out and buy a new camera. This is instead, shoring up the bottom end of the line-up. When this body ships, and the new lenses ship, Pentax swill still be able to correctly claim fantastic compatibility which Pentax customers have raved about.

Exactly, it's about a "new revision" to a solid offering.

I think that the K100D Super is a good move for Pentax.
Having the same model constantly upgraded is a good thing for everyone ( pentax and consumers ). And using components already used on others products too ( SR and DR from K10D ). Because it keeps the price as low as possible ( to manufacture, and to buy ).

Now you're thinking like an engineer or, better yet, an engineering product manager.

Dust removal of probably dubious effectiveness and support for lenses I can't afford and probably wouldn't buy even if I could?
No thanks; happy with the plain and apparently now-obsolete K100D I bought 5 months ago. (Part of why these days I blow my money on antique cameras instead. They start out obsolete).

And I'm probably in the exact same boat as yourself.
I don't absolutely need the DR, although I need to learn how to do it myself.
I mean, I might as well on a sub-$400 camera body (I wouldn't if it was a K10D).

I do use R-CRV3. I got regulated ones from thomas-distributing. My only complaint is that one of the chargers doesnt work. Of course I rarely need to charge, so it hasnt been a problem. I am to lazy to try to get it replaced.

By "regulated" you ain't exactly getting "regulated" -- Li-Ion is still Li-Ion, it is a 3.6V discharge, 4.2V charge cell.
I don't care what they do to "get it as close" to 3.0V as they can, it still doesn't work below 3.0V and Li-Ion cells are destroyed at 2.7-2.8V.
AA is 1.2V discharge, 1.5V charge -- which means 2x AA is 2.4V discharge, 3.0V charge.

Now the AF motors and other motors should be fine, as TTL and other logic designed for 4.8-6V can take 9V.
In fact, the Li-Ion will seem to be "peppy."
But it's a completely different story with the microelectronics, which can't take over-voltage of that magnitude.

The K100Ds voltage regulation between the batteries and microelctronics expect 4.8-6V.
They do not like to see 7.2-8.4V, not even "regulated" to near, but still well above, 6V.
The nominal discharge voltage for Li-Ion is 3.6, 2x being 7.2V, and there's no way around that.
Again, just getting near 3V (2x for 6V) is not good for the Li-Ion cell itself, and it dies just below that.

So you're over-volting the K100D's regulator and causing trans-conductance in the microelectronics, and that's killing the lifespan of the microelectronics.
6V to 7.2V is like 1.5V to 1.8V in CPU over-volting, even most PC over-clocking enthusiasts would warn about that.
Again, I don't care what they say about "regulation" of their RCR-V3s, I'm sure I could show you when those batteries spike at 3.6V+, especially just after re-charging.

[RiceHigh]

RiceHigh your experiment you showed us is worthless and there is no real way to test it but use it and mine works so take your uneducated guess to another forum please.

So, why there are so many people talk about that the K10D's DR function is useless? Even along this thread??

[codiac2600]

Ummm, let me think.... 10 out 100000+ users is pretty good RiceHigh you do the math on the number of people complaining vs. number purchased?

This again proves your ignorance and it's just sad that you attempt to voice your problems over and over again for what silly purpose? Nobody on this forum can fix your problems, why don't you voice these to Pentax day in and day out like you do here, maybe then you'll see results.

Don't forget the non-stick coating is part of the DR or did you overlook that as always? If you need a test on how well it works... just let some dust get stuck to your 5D for a good week and see how easy it blows out compared to a K10D and post your results.

[carpents]

Ummm, let me think.... 10 out 100000+ users is pretty good RiceHigh you do the math on the number of people complaining vs. number purchased?

This again proves your ignorance and it's just sad that you attempt to voice your problems over and over again for what silly purpose? Nobody on this forum can fix your problems, why don't you voice these to Pentax day in and day out like you do here, maybe then you'll see results.

Don't forget the non-stick coating is part of the DR or did you overlook that as always? If you need a test on how well it works... just let some dust get stuck to your 5D for a good week and see how easy it blows out compared to a K10D and post your results.

Dude, what's with the hate?

The non-stick coating is great. I love it. One puff takes care of the dust.

The 'DR' as it is advertised doesn't do anything, period. I never looked at RH's tests, I did look at another test somewhere comparing Oly to Sony to Pentax - but in my real world experience you can run the shakey-dust-remover and it doesn't budge one speck.

And people don't complain about it because it isn't a big deal, and no one else's DR works, either. It certainly sells more cameras and I'm happy that it does.

It is actually the kind of GOOD marketing that I was so happy to see from Pentax. The shake reduction, dust removal, and (on the K10D) the weather sealing are all HUGE marketing pluses. No one in their right mind is going to say that the K100D is the 'same camera' as the DL.