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03-11-2010, 02:04 AM   #616
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Sorry but you do not even have an actual camera to test and yet you can make such pronouncements. Simply amazing!
I don't know how you can come up with all the pseudo technical verbiage but it would be good if you can provide substantive evidence or proof to support your assertions.
You can start by getting your hands on an actual 645 Digital first...
It's pretty common knowledge that CCD sensors with no/weak AA filters produce far better sharpness at 100% than CMOS sensors. It's reasonable to assume that the 645D will share the same trait. It's like saying 'the next Nikon top-line model will have great high ISO capability', not known for sure but also not surprising. We're talking dog bites man here and not man bites dog.

Anyway,with all this 'buzz', looks like Pentax are going to have to hire some more Vietnamese!

03-11-2010, 02:05 AM   #617
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QuoteOriginally posted by ibk Quote
It's the prototype of the new wide-angle lens.
I'm also wondering about the knobs?
It's a slide-in place for a polarizer or other filter. The knob is to secure the drawer, the wheel is for rotating the polarizer. It's like the one in the old A*600/5,6 645 telephoto

Last edited by eurostar; 03-11-2010 at 02:38 AM.
03-11-2010, 02:44 AM   #618
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Well I just got out of CP+

generally as a show the whole deal looked a little 1.0

pentax was definitely the star. The crowd around their stage was 15 people deep and the wait to handle a 645 was about an hour with about six models out.

I gave up taking pics of all the guys with canikon around their neck waiting in line to see the 645

I didn't get toomuch time there but I did handle the new baby, so hereare my impressions:

it's LIGHT, weight the same as my k10 with an M 50mm 1.4 mounted, or less.
Fits my hand so nice, but portrait snaps would be a pain.
Lenses start at a cool grand.
Did I mention it's light? A tadge bigger than a hasselblad, better looking, and MUCH lighter.
The thumb and finger wheels are much better than the k series cameras, and in better positions.
The viewfinder is massive, and quite bright with the 55mm 2.8 which was mounted. I felt sucked into the frame.
The AF was sublime, of course it was SDM so maybe I didn't know what I was missing before. Didn't seem any faster than usual though.
I noticed a lag from button press to capture time, as the dude I was shooting ended up moved from the frame.
The shutter has quite a thunk. A but quieter than my k10 but you can feel the camera move more in your hand.
This would fit nicely in my current, small bag.
Did I mention it was light? Great ergonomics in the shape too.

I took some shots but they refused to let me put an sd card in it.

I will post all my pics later when I get home. Also watched and photo'd a photogs presentation regarding using the 645. I got the guy to take a pic of me with the 645, and it was fun to watch him fail with a manual lens

all for now

Last edited by JesseDavis; 03-11-2010 at 02:55 AM.
03-11-2010, 02:50 AM   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
It's a slide-in place for a polarizer or other filter. The knob is to secure the drawer, the wheel is for rotating the polarizer. It's like the one in the old A*600/5,6 645 telephoto
Thank you!

03-11-2010, 04:18 AM   #620
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
A 100% crop from a 40MP MF photo normally still looks tack sharp all over the place. Look at one of my earlier posts. I've never seen this from a FF camera.
So, there is more than just surface area of the sensor that determines IQ like I had thought. I hear this argument that the difference in surface area of the 3/4th vs APS-C and APS-C vs FF, both being higher than the differnece between FF and MF and downplaying the possible improvements in IQ. Yet, the Leica S2 sample images are stunningly sharp at 100%, however it is awefully hard to tell the superiority of FF at 100% crop over APS-C. So, the aurface area argument is invalid, right? as there is more to it (absence of AA filter for one).

P.S: Lumo, among the differneces between S2 and 645D you have to mention sync. speeds as the s2 is markedly better there.
03-11-2010, 04:43 AM   #621
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
It's a slide-in place for a polarizer or other filter. The knob is to secure the drawer, the wheel is for rotating the polarizer. It's like the one in the old A*600/5,6 645 telephoto
Very nice! Large diameter polarizers cost a tonne, and vignette when things get ultra-wide!

Could we have one of these in the next DA wide please?
03-11-2010, 04:44 AM   #622
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some more 645D @ CP+ pics here:

[CP+ 2010] Pentax Medium-Format 654D in the Flesh Akihabara News

Last edited by Mohawk; 03-11-2010 at 05:57 AM.
03-11-2010, 04:45 AM   #623
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Sinar cameras have shutter life of 50,000 releases too.
http://www.sinar.ch/en/products/cameras/134-sinar-m


Last edited by ogl; 03-11-2010 at 05:19 AM.
03-11-2010, 05:06 AM   #624
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Did these MF cameras have AA filters? Or did they not have it like the 645D and Leica S2?
Earlier, I posted two images in this thread to illustrate the point, from a H3DII-50 and from an S2. Don't know if the H3DII-50 has an AA filter.

The point being that I haven't seen yet similiar pictures from a 35mm camera, with or without AA filter. But you can help. I would be very keen in seeing a counter example.
QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Sorry but you do not even have an actual camera to test and yet you can make such pronouncements [...] pseudo technical verbiage [...] provide substantive evidence or proof
Maybe, you read something different into what I meant to write? (E.g., the part you underlined applied to 35mm not the 645D!) Later comments seem to think so too.

As you may know or not, I am always on a hunt for substantive evidences. You can help. Of course, there aren't any 40MP images from 35mm digital

But maybe, you can provide images from Canon's 7D which has about the same pixel pitch a 40MP 35mm would have, which rival 40MP MF at the 100% crop level. The resolution chart at Imaging resource seems to indicate that 90 lp/mm is the absolute (5% MTF) limit (Canon EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro, f/5.6), corresponding to a feasibility of 28MP with 35mm. But as has been said, the removal of the AA filter and even better glass and less shake may help.

To repeat: As for the 645D, I am rather optimistic that it can deliver on its 40MP promise.

Last edited by falconeye; 03-11-2010 at 05:52 AM.
03-11-2010, 05:24 AM   #625
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Was there mention of any other 645 Lenses?
03-11-2010, 05:25 AM   #626
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Just a question -- probably a stupid one. Why don't medium format sensors have good high iso? I had thought that as pixel sizes increase and sensor sizes increased that high iso should increase as well, but it seems like medium format sensors don't shoot over iso 800 or so. Not sure if anyone has a good explanation.
03-11-2010, 05:28 AM   #627
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I think it's mostly due to the traditional rolls of MF shooting. Either studio photography, with lights enough to outshine the sun, or sticking it on a tripod, planting it in front of a pretty mountain or lake or sunset, and if the exposure's long, well, what's it matter?
03-11-2010, 05:49 AM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by JesseDavis Quote
The shutter has quite a thunk. A but quieter than my k10 but you can feel the camera move more in your hand.
Quieter than a K10? That is outstanding news! My 645N sounds like I am taking a target pistol to my subject.
03-11-2010, 05:55 AM   #629
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
...
Maybe, you read something different into what I meant to write? Later comments seem to think so too.

As you may know or not, I am always on a hunt for substantive evidences. You can help. Of course, there aren't any 40MP images from 35mm digital

But maybe, you can provide images from Canon's 7D which has about the same pixel pitch a 40MP 35mm would have, which rival 40MP MF at the 100% crop level. The resolution chart at Imaging resource seems to indicate that 90 lp/mm is the absolute (5% MTF) limit (Canon EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro, f/5.6), corresponding to a feasibility of 28MP with 35mm. But as has been said, the removal of the AA filter and even better glass and less shake may help.
I gotta say your powers of extrapolation are amazing.
I think the onus is on you, not me, to provide substantive proof because whatever you have stated sounds like academic conjecture and meaningless measurebation. I would think that it would be a pointless exercise to compare a CMOS sensor of 22.3 x 14.9 mm from an 18 megapixel APS-C camera to a 44mm x 33mm CCD sensor delivering 40 megapixels. The sensor design/architecture and the image processing are quite different so I fail to see what is the point of making a comparison and a meaningful one at that. Compare the 645 Digital with the Leica S2 or Hasselblad or Mamiya and perhaps there are more valid points to be made.
03-11-2010, 05:56 AM   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Not sure if anyone has a good explanation.
Not sure either.
I tried to elaborate on this in an earlier post:
-> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/947460-post411.html
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