Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-18-2010, 04:57 PM   #781
Pentaxian
redrockcoulee's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 2,140
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Thanks for all the explainations.

But there seems to be a tendency to confirm that the main purpose is perspective control in architectural shots. If this is true, I must repeat my question:

Why don't these guys use a straight lens and nodal point turns?

With software like Autopano Pro I imagine that results would be superior and the image taking procedure be simpler and faster.

Are shift lenses a thing of the analog past?
Not sure with non view cameras but in landscape photography with a view camera using tilts and swings greatly extends the depth of focus. That may be the prime reason many use large format cameras at all. It is not from simply closing down that the exteme forground and distant mountain can be in focus on a shot

03-18-2010, 05:16 PM   #782
Veteran Member
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
in landscape photography with a view camera using tilts and swings greatly extends the depth of focus.
I am aware of this and this is why I wrote "in architectural shots".

I agree, the ability to tilt the focus plane with a tilt lens is a great thing, even in digital age where you could apply focus stacking. Not only with a view camera.
03-18-2010, 09:12 PM   #783
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Why don't these guys use a straight lens and nodal point turns?
If the only FOV extension they need can be provided with left to right shifting then that is the simplest solution. No need for additional equipment.
03-18-2010, 09:39 PM   #784
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
It is not that I am right and you are wrong but I am referring to LF and you are to 35mm format.
For the benefit of others who may not have read up on camera movements I will clarify this issue.

When using a view or technical camera, that is, one which has a front bellows, "rise" and "fall" refer to vertical movements. It is these that are used to remove perspective distortion. "Shift" refers to left and right movements of the lens, which is mostly used to avoid reflections of the camera itself in glass and so on.

However, on cameras without a front bellows, namely 35mm and medium format, the term "shift" is commonly used to refer to any of these movements. In this case vertical shifts will straighten converging lines but horizontal shifts will not.

Similarly, tilting the lens forwards or backwards, to change the focal plane, is called "tilt" on a view camera. Tilting the lens left or right is called "swing". But both of these are called "tilt" in 35mm, assuming one has a lens that can do both (it must be able to rotate).

All of these front standard movements are a function of the camera in the case of view cameras. But they are the function of the specific lens in 35mm. Without a tilt/shift lens one cannot begin to approximate the degree of control view cameras offer.

Rear standard movements may also be available on view cameras. Some of these duplicate the effects of front standard movements (though with different effects on image size, etc.) while others help with convergence control when shooting at a subject on an angle. But I think it is safe to say that these situations are significantly less prevalent than those covered by front standard movements.

03-18-2010, 10:07 PM   #785
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,214
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
For the benefit of others who may not have read up on camera movements I will clarify this issue.

When using a view or technical camera, that is, one which has a front bellows, "rise" and "fall" refer to vertical movements. It is these that are used to remove perspective distortion. "Shift" refers to left and right movements of the lens, which is mostly used to avoid reflections of the camera itself in glass and so on.

However, on cameras without a front bellows, namely 35mm and medium format, the term "shift" is commonly used to refer to any of these movements. In this case vertical shifts will straighten converging lines but horizontal shifts will not.

Similarly, tilting the lens forwards or backwards, to change the focal plane, is called "tilt" on a view camera. Tilting the lens left or right is called "swing". But both of these are called "tilt" in 35mm, assuming one has a lens that can do both (it must be able to rotate).

All of these front standard movements are a function of the camera in the case of view cameras. But they are the function of the specific lens in 35mm. Without a tilt/shift lens one cannot begin to approximate the degree of control view cameras offer.

Rear standard movements may also be available on view cameras. Some of these duplicate the effects of front standard movements (though with different effects on image size, etc.) while others help with convergence control when shooting at a subject on an angle. But I think it is safe to say that these situations are significantly less prevalent than those covered by front standard movements.
That's a very good concise explanation.
03-19-2010, 05:36 AM   #786
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Borås, Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,165
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Rear standard movements may also be available on view cameras. Some of these duplicate the effects of front standard movements (though with different effects on image size, etc.) while others help with convergence control when shooting at a subject on an angle. But I think it is safe to say that these situations are significantly less prevalent than those covered by front standard movements.
Rear tilt is pretty common for landscape shooters as it tends to exaggerate the near-far effect. Also, on lenses with a smaller image circle it might be a better option than front tilt.
03-19-2010, 06:33 AM   #787
Veteran Member
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
If the only FOV extension they need can be provided with left to right shifting then that is the simplest solution. No need for additional equipment.
May be.

In order to spice up the thread with some photos, this is an image in rectilinear projection from the West Portal of Cologne Cathedral, 157m high. Problem is that the max. distance to the portal is 60m only, 1/3 of height.

If you think, the Gaudi cathedral in Barcelona takes long to be built: The Colgne cathedral took more than 600 years to be built


Even though the perspective distortion is well corrected on the planar part of the building, it cannot do wonders for the pyramid roof up in the sky (in reality, it would have to look higher)

This is freehand, more than 100MP, stitched from 2 dozen images. I doubt that a shift lens, combined with tripod would be that much less "additional equipment"


(btw, correcting perspective distortion is not "straighten lines". Straight lines are kept straight by a perspective distortion anyway. Correcting perspective distortion is about "parallelizing lines". This is best done by pointing the camera to the horizon (and using a shift lens) or selecting a "vanishing point" on the horizon within a decent panorama software package. Better accuracy than with PTLens.


Sky Cathedral (click to enlarge)
03-20-2010, 07:35 AM   #788
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,299
http://www.amazon.co.jp/PENTAX-中判デジタル一眼レフカメラ-645D-約4000万画素-大型CCDセンサー/dp/B003...ductPromotions

release date - May, 20.

03-20-2010, 09:21 AM   #789
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,214

So if reports are accurate that they can build 500/month they should have at least 1500 when they go on sale maybe even 2x that. They could have been building them even though the firmware needed tweaked.
03-20-2010, 10:01 AM   #790
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,299
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
So if reports are accurate that they can build 500/month they should have at least 1500 when they go on sale maybe even 2x that. They could have been building them even though the firmware needed tweaked.
I think they've started to make 645D before CP+. The manual was printed on December, 2009.
03-20-2010, 10:39 AM   #791
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,537
The 500 units/month is an official figure, published on Pentax Japan's website.
Ogl, if you're talking about the "leaked" manual, well... the camera depicted on the cover is not the production model as it had the mirror up button on the pentaprism housing:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/81538-pentax-645d-user-manual-leak.html
03-20-2010, 10:43 AM   #792
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,299
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The 500 units/month is an official figure, published on Pentax Japan's website.
Ogl, if you're talking about the "leaked" manual, well... the camera depicted on the cover is not the production model as it had the mirror up button on the pentaprism housing:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/81538-pentax-645d-user-manual-leak.html


The picture of 645D could be pasted by any user who had the cover page.
but...the scheme of 645D is true.

I had info from Pentax China, not from this thread. But I don't know if Pentax strated to make 645D from December, 2009. It's just my guess.

Last edited by ogl; 03-21-2010 at 06:45 AM.
03-20-2010, 11:03 AM   #793
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,214
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The 500 units/month is an official figure, published on Pentax Japan's website.
Ogl, if you're talking about the "leaked" manual, well... the camera depicted on the cover is not the production model as it had the mirror up button on the pentaprism housing:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/81538-pentax-645d-user-manual-leak.html
Regardless, that doesn't tell us when the actually starting assembling units. It also doesn't indicate it that is their target average based on projections or maximum capacity. Furthermore, translation from Japanese has been confusing on more than 1 occasion even for so-called "official" reports. If they were building them in Jan, Feb and March and May, they could have 2000 units on hand. If they were building in Nov and Dec there could be as many as 3000 on hand. I think the 500 number could have been based on expected projections because I don't think they want to warehouse too many of these things.

Edit: The flip side of the coin is they are struggling to get the first 500 built and some guys in Tokyo are pissing their pants at the moment.
03-21-2010, 05:56 AM   #794
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,299
‰¿Ši.com - ƒyƒ“ƒ^ƒbƒNƒX PENTAX 645D ƒ{ƒfƒB ‰¿Ši”äŠr

Hmmm...

From $8600...
03-21-2010, 06:32 AM   #795
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,537
Blue: of course we don't know when they started. It's safe to assume, though, that they planned to build up some stock for the initial demand. I'd bet it won't be enough or am I being too optimistic?
The 500 units/month is IMHO accurate; I'd translate (not talking about an automated translation, which can go very wrong even with simple things like this) "Initial monthly production volume: 500(units)". Afaik we have Japanese speakers here who can confirm.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
645d!!! insulinguy Pentax News and Rumors 1 10-12-2010 07:36 AM
645D now available in the UK robbiec Pentax News and Rumors 3 09-21-2010 03:01 AM
Using the 645D... HawaiianOnline Pentax Medium Format 13 03-23-2010 07:17 PM
645D or something else? GordonZA Pentax News and Rumors 7 03-09-2010 02:24 PM
Who would consider a 645D? Elton Pentax Medium Format 11 09-28-2007 07:39 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:43 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top