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02-10-2010, 12:05 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
I really hope that Pentax will put 645D way out of my reach so I won't even begin to be tempted. For me, above 5G and I am out. If $4,999 with a lens, my marriage will be in big trouble.
It'll be around US$9500 last I heard so no worries about your wife unless she's hot and will leave you anyways

02-10-2010, 12:33 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Its just an observation. If VietNam collapses will this mean Hoya get to build Pentax gear at lower prices or higher prices ???

I don't know.

Is this reality good or bad for Hoya ?
I'm not an economist, but I think I remember a little bit from Economics 101.

If the Vietnamese currency (I don't even know what it is called) collapses, it means the Hoya's cost of production would go down. Whereas it might have cost 10,000 yen to buy the equivalent vietnamese currency to build one lens, it might now cost only 5,000 yen. For the Vietnamese, it would mean that imported goods would cost twice as much. I doubt that Vietnam is a very big market for Pentax products. They just make them; they don't buy them.

OTOH, if Greece's trouble causes the Euro to lose value, that will have a huge effect on sales, since Europe is a very significant market in which to sell Pentax products. If the value of the Euro drops to half its current value, relative to the yen, that means that Pentax products would have to suddenly double in price. It would be small consolation that it would affect Nikon and Canon as well.
02-10-2010, 12:44 PM   #78
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I believe, no matter what the price of 645D will be, one thing will be released free for all pentaxians along with the digital MF.

Bragging rights.
02-10-2010, 12:49 PM   #79
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For those who compare megapixels from DSLR to Mf digital, go to forums like GetDPI where people who have both systems often explain on the many benefits of medium format larger sensor. Of course they could be wrong and only in moving up in sensor size from P&S upwards to full frame 35mm size does an increase in sensor size matter and after that there are no gains beyond that but that seems unlikely. Are 12 Megapixel P&S images going to be technically better than images from a K10D? If not then why expect a 24 megapixel from a full frame to be better than the equivalent pixels on a sensor 50% bigger?

There was someone on GetDPI that not only claimed that the old CFV back for a Hasselblad (4 year old sensor technology) was better than the CAnon full frame in many areas but that he actually perferred it to the newer CFV 39 back for some images even though the latter has twice the number of pixels. IIRC this person had owned all three systems in question and used them professionally. We all should know that there are more to it than just resolution.

Another point is there are few MF lenses faster than 2.0 or 2.8 in the market. Think of the size they would need to be due to the much larger circle of illumination needed for the larger sensor or film.

I am sure that Pentax is a competent enough company not to produce a camera without any lenses and that the current lenses will not work so that the buyer cannot use the new camera. A larger sensor makes as much sense for landscape photography as does larger film sizes, depending on the needs of the photographer and his or her clients. Obviously few would use the new camera for wildlife or for most of stock photography or magazine covers but there are many other uses that do require the greater detail and tonality that larger sensors do provide. There were always more 35mm shooters than medium format and more MF than large format but that does not mean that only the most common format is needed.

02-10-2010, 01:06 PM   #80
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Dong Currency Risk in Yen

QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Its just an observation. If VietNam collapses will this mean Hoya get to build Pentax gear at lower prices or higher prices ???

I don't know.
Vietnam has financial problems. Thats in the news today.

Is this reality good or bad for Hoya ?
If the Vietnamese Dong declines versus the Japanese Yen, Hoya will need fewer Yen to purchase however many Dong it takes to pay their workers (and anything else they actually pay for in Dong) - thus in the short term it is good for Hoya if Vietnam devalues.

But then devaluation is inflationary in the home country (Vietnam), so they will need to pay thier Vietnamese workers more Dong, which will cost more Yen, so the system self-corrects.

Further, any value of assets, cash or earnings currently held in Vietnam lose value when expressed in Yen if the Dong is devalued versus Yen. We don't know the magnitude of Hoya's exposure to home-country asset devaluation if the Dong is devalued.

If Hoya "hedges" its currency risk none of the above applies - changes are reduced to the extent of the percentage hedge (hedging is expensive in the current term, so companies calculate their apparent risk and hedge a portion of the currency exposure - 0% - 100%, depending).

We don't know enough to know what we don't know
02-10-2010, 01:13 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by enoxatnep:
You're right, it definitely looks smaller than medium-format. Since the K-x is so recent, maybe Pentax is going to shock everyone and drop the full-frame bomb before they officially announce the 645D?

QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Are you guys serious???
This is clearly the 645D silhouette. Why the dreaming about FF yet again?
Hey, relax nosnoop! Maybe I should have added the following to the end of my earlier post: I was just musing about Pentax doing something totally unforseen, throwing a curve-ball that would take everyone by surprise. And introducing FF when absolutely everyone is expecting medium-format would be just that and then some, wouldn't you agree!
02-10-2010, 01:28 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
There were always more 35mm shooters than medium format and more MF than large format but that does not mean that only the most common format is needed.
So which should Pentax have focused on first; the 1% of their users that have been asking for MF or the 25%+ or so that want 35mm?
02-10-2010, 01:42 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
So which should Pentax have focused on first; the 1% of their users that have been asking for MF or the 25%+ or so that want 35mm?
It doesn't matter if the sales of that 25% "FFers" do not pay for development costs.

02-10-2010, 01:50 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
So which should Pentax have focused on first; the 1% of their users that have been asking for MF or the 25%+ or so that want 35mm?
I would like to see FF, but I don't know that Pentax could expect to see 25% of all of their users switching over. There still is competition from Soncanikon, where "lower priced" MF is a bit of an untapped market at present. I guess the question is, would Hoya have more exposure adding a FF to compete against all of the other FFs out there, or will they get a new type of customer and more exposure with MF? It's too bad it was not done 5 years ago, but we'll see what happens.

Also, there is a debate even here regarding FF vs APS-C, so why not through in an updated MF sensor to battle it out as well. This leaves Soncanikon having to compare their FF against MF (and not a MF from years ago). FF will be better for a lot of things, but not all.
02-10-2010, 02:30 PM   #85
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the expected price of the Pentax 645D is going to be around US$ 6,500.
02-10-2010, 02:44 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by eigelb Quote
the expected price of the Pentax 645D is going to be around US$ 6,500.
Where did you get this from?
The Japanese articles I've seen mention around US$9500 after you translate the yen...
02-10-2010, 02:45 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
So which should Pentax have focused on first; the 1% of their users that have been asking for MF or the 25%+ or so that want 35mm?


I have no idea of those values or percentages. What percent of current MF Pentax users want digital? What percent of current digital users will buy full frame or 35 mm size? What amount of profit from either system and even more important is how does it work internally in their R&D departments? What are the numbers of people wishing an affordable step up from DSLRs?

I will not pretent to know that. But if one only uses numbers than Canon and Nikon are both crazy to make their big pro models as they sell many less units than of Rebels and D3000 but there is more to the picture than number of units sold or mark up on each unit that factor on a company's decision on what models to produce. For all I know it may be an entirely difference set of employees working on most of the 645D and that model may have absolutely zero effect on the full frame or it could be that 100% of the workers who would have been developing a full frame were used in the R&D of the 645. I make no assumptions.

I have no dogs in this fight as I am currently satisfied with film in MF and LF and for my next digital SLR I am in no rush to get as the current pair of K10D and D200 do us well. Two weeks ago I was using a lens on the D200 that would cost very close to the predicted cost of the 645D so it is not unaffordable to those who need it. No I did not buy it but was offered the opportunity to try out a 200 2.0 for a couple of days by its owner.

But Pentax has apparently made a decision that Mf comes before full frame or at least is announced before it. They certainly have a much bigger stake in the outcome of their decisions than any of us do.
02-10-2010, 03:23 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
have a look at the left side of dark body and real camera, and compare. you can rotate 645D, fill with black in PS and you will see the same camera from web-site.
Just feel that the hot shoe is quite at the back, and if taking photos at a very low angle like the one on pentax website. the shape of the hot shoe should not appear, should it?

I still believe it is 645D tho, just the photo shown on the website is weird.
02-10-2010, 03:57 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Where did you get this from?
The Japanese articles I've seen mention around US$9500 after you translate the yen...
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/86131-pentax-evil-645d-price-rumors.html
02-10-2010, 04:19 PM   #90
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I also wonder if Pentax has done calculations to determine what affect a digital medium format camera will have on sales of DSLRs to non Pentax users. I mean if full frames are more expensive could it be that Pentax believes it will be an easier sale if consumers associate the brand with the MF professional camera rather than the few DA DSRs that are currently sold.

As less than 25% of either Canon or Nikon users have jumped to the D700 or the Canon equivalent is it reasonable to think that a quarter of all owners of a Pentax DSLR would. Whenever Pentax brings out a full frame camera they will need to attract more people than those already buying their product.

Anyways it seems that the release of the 645D is more eminent than in its previous announcements. To abandon it now to bring out an inexpensive full frame DSLR without a marked improvement in autofocus would be a disaster for the company.
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