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falconeye · 03-11-2010, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Just playing around with ideas...

If you think this thru, you'll end up with a digital rear lens cap

icywarm · 03-11-2010, 07:05 PM

Ok, lots of talk about how great the photos will be and all, but I will only buy one if it shots video... sorry if the jokes been made already... ;p

Steve Beswick · 03-11-2010, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by PeteyJ

I don't have 10 grand to spend on a camera when/if this thing comes to the states, but this thing has me excited. 10 grand for a MF camera is a damn good price, especially with those specs. I've never really been afraid that the Pentax brand would disappear forever, and now, the thought won't cross my mind at all for awhile.

I kind of felt excited for a while as well. I even thought "maybe in a couple of years, after i graduate."

Then I did some math.

My Mamiya 645 1000s, 80mm f1.9, and WLF are worth roughly $300. Let's be really generous and say that in five years it will be possible to buy one of these for $4,000. That is a disparity of $3,700, or over 11,000 frames of film at $5 a roll.

I think I'll stick with my film gear.

ogl · 03-12-2010, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by JesseDavis

Well I just got out of CP+

generally as a show the whole deal looked a little 1.0

Can you tell us how wide AF points put in VF.
Are all close to center or not?

Like this

or it's relative position?

creampuff · 03-12-2010, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Steve Beswick

I kind of felt excited for a while as well. I even thought "maybe in a couple of years, after i graduate."

Then I did some math.

My Mamiya 645 1000s, 80mm f1.9, and WLF are worth roughly $300. Let's be really generous and say that in five years it will be possible to buy one of these for $4,000. That is a disparity of $3,700, or over 11,000 frames of film at $5 a roll.

I think I'll stick with my film gear.

What about developing cost for your films? How about costs to scan and digitize your negatives or slides? How about the time waiting to process? Time to print?
Is it really meaningful comparing a discontinued film camera which is fully depreciated vs a new digital camera that's just being launched?
If you want to stick to your old film ways, that's fine but if you can't or are not prepared to pony up the cost for digital MF, then such math is too simplistic and useless.
I'll bet the percentage of keepers with digital MF is gonna be way higher than film because there will always be a percentage of dud frames.

falconeye · 03-12-2010, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Can you tell us how wide AF points put in VF.
Are all close to center or not?

There was this "cut-thru-the-middle" exhibit at CP+ (link in this thread). By the size of the auxiliary mirror and AF part in the bottom, I would say that AF points don't span a wider area.

I may be wrong, though.

flyer · 03-12-2010, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

requests for tethering capability, something a CMOS MF sensor could provide,

You don't need a CMOS sensor for that. A CCD can do it to.

Steve Beswick · 03-12-2010, 03:49 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

What about developing cost for your films? How about costs to scan and digitize your negatives or slides? How about the time waiting to process? Time to print?

I do all of these things myself, so the cost is negligible. Also the time arguement is pointless, as I usually don't bother scanning anything. I make my prints the "old film" way, in a darkroom, with an enlarger and chemistry. Doing so is both faster and more fun, at least for me.

Quote:

Is it really meaningful comparing a discontinued film camera which is fully depreciated vs a new digital camera that's just being launched?

I am comparing a price that is more than I paid to a hypothetical future price. If I wanted to be really honest I would say what I paid for the Mamiya, which is roughly $130, and use the list price for the 645D which is going to be over $10,000 with a " normal" lens when it is first available.

Quote:

If you want to stick to your old film ways, that's fine but if you can't or are not prepared to pony up the cost for digital MF, then such math is too simplistic and useless.

I didn't realize this forum was full of nothing but the filthy rich of the world. I was also unaware that Pentax is right up there with Leica and Hasselblad. I guess I'm the only person on this forum that still sees the importance in doing a value equation when considering a multi-thousand dollar purchase.

Just to make sure we are clear, even if I was Bill Gates rich I still don't think I would spend the money on the 645D. Digital MF is simply not worth the money for 99+% of photographers.

Quote:

I'll bet the percentage of keepers with digital MF is gonna be way higher than film because there will always be a percentage of dud frames.

Funny, I get easily 10 times more keepers on average out of my lowly P3n than I do out of my K10d. I think that you will find many others on this forum that feel the same.

ogl · 03-12-2010, 04:04 AM

http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/1600%20iso%20f16%202sec_0183.jpg

H4D-40 at ISO1600....

JPEG. not converted from RAW. I'd say it's VERY GOOD.

Ôîòîãðàôèè, ñäåëàííûå êàìåðîé H4D-40 îò Hasselblad

http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/portrait%20400%20iso...20Daylight.jpg
ISO400. Superb. IMO

http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/Exterior1%20100iso%20f11%20daylight.jpg
http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/Sample%20Image%203.jpg

I think 645D is not worse.

ogl · 03-12-2010, 04:07 AM

http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/Strat-Headshot-50.dng
http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/zp_0009.dng
http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/ipetry_0067.dng
http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/Sample%20Image%203.dng

DNG from H4D-40 (or H3D-39....

)

hopey · 03-12-2010, 04:43 AM

Spanish site hands-on review:

Google Traducir

pcarfan · 03-12-2010, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by ogl

http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/1600%20iso%20f16%202sec_0183.jpg

H4D-40 at ISO1600....

JPEG. not converted from RAW. I'd say it's VERY GOOD.

Ôîòîãðàôèè, ñäåëàííûå êàìåðîé H4D-40 îò Hasselblad

http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/portrait%20400%20iso...20Daylight.jpg
ISO400. Superb. IMO

http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/Exterior1%20100iso%20f11%20daylight.jpg
http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/Sample%20Image%203.jpg

I think 645D is not worse.

That last image shows great details, wow!...will be awesome for professional studio works.

For some reason (well, due to lack of experience and knowledge of MF) I was expecting a lot more with the landscape shots. Now, I realize there are no magic bullets.

kenyee · 03-12-2010, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by pcarfan

For some reason (well, due to lack of experience and knowledge of MF) I was expecting a lot more with the landscape shots.

I thought it had enough dynamic range so we no longer would need ND grad filters, but that doesn't look to be the case...
ISO1600 on the Hassy looks roughly like ISO800 on my K20D, but with less chroma noise

kenyee · 03-12-2010, 10:23 AM

FYI, the Hassy H3D-50 doesn't have an AA filter either...none of the Hassy's do (I asked their tech support). They have an IR filter built in, but the sensor doesn't have an AA filter. Their Phocus RAW processing software takes care of moire issues and has some awesome moire removal code...

yeatzee · 03-12-2010, 01:22 PM

I tried talking to a guy about this camera but as soon as he heard pentax he went into canon FF fanboy mode.... going on and on about how his 1Ds mark X will beat anything Pentax can possibly make....

Man is the Pentax bashing getting old! I hope this camera is put up against canon's/nikon's top camera and I hope the Pentax shows them whose boss

Im quite proud to be a pentaxian with this camera out. Its like being proud that we the US have the best fighter jet in the world or something

03-12-2010, 04:04 AM	#654
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/1600%20iso%20f16%202sec_0183.jpg H4D-40 at ISO1600.... JPEG. not converted from RAW. I'd say it's VERY GOOD. Ôîòîãðàôèè, ñäåëàííûå êàìåðîé H4D-40 îò Hasselblad http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/portrait%20400%20iso...20Daylight.jpg ISO400. Superb. IMO http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/Exterior1%20100iso%20f11%20daylight.jpg http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/Sample%20Image%203.jpg I think 645D is not worse. Last edited by ogl; 03-12-2010 at 04:09 AM.

03-12-2010, 04:07 AM	#655
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/Strat-Headshot-50.dng http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/zp_0009.dng http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/ipetry_0067.dng http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/dng/Sample%20Image%203.dng DNG from H4D-40 (or H3D-39....) Last edited by ogl; 03-12-2010 at 04:12 AM.

03-12-2010, 05:35 AM	#657
pcarfan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,978	Originally posted by ogl http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/1600%20iso%20f16%202sec_0183.jpg H4D-40 at ISO1600.... JPEG. not converted from RAW. I'd say it's VERY GOOD. Ôîòîãðàôèè, ñäåëàííûå êàìåðîé H4D-40 îò Hasselblad http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/portrait%20400%20iso...20Daylight.jpg ISO400. Superb. IMO http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/h4d-40/Exterior1%20100iso%20f11%20daylight.jpg http://kadrik.com/hasselblad/samples/jpg_fullres/Sample%20Image%203.jpg I think 645D is not worse. That last image shows great details, wow!...will be awesome for professional studio works. For some reason (well, due to lack of experience and knowledge of MF) I was expecting a lot more with the landscape shots. Now, I realize there are no magic bullets. Last edited by pcarfan; 03-12-2010 at 03:09 PM.

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03-11-2010, 06:11 PM	#646
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by johnmflores Just playing around with ideas... If you think this thru, you'll end up with a digital rear lens cap

03-11-2010, 07:05 PM	#647
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278	Ok, lots of talk about how great the photos will be and all, but I will only buy one if it shots video... sorry if the jokes been made already... ;p

03-11-2010, 08:13 PM	#648
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Originally posted by PeteyJ I don't have 10 grand to spend on a camera when/if this thing comes to the states, but this thing has me excited. 10 grand for a MF camera is a damn good price, especially with those specs. I've never really been afraid that the Pentax brand would disappear forever, and now, the thought won't cross my mind at all for awhile. I kind of felt excited for a while as well. I even thought "maybe in a couple of years, after i graduate." Then I did some math. My Mamiya 645 1000s, 80mm f1.9, and WLF are worth roughly $300. Let's be really generous and say that in five years it will be possible to buy one of these for $4,000. That is a disparity of $3,700, or over 11,000 frames of film at $5 a roll. I think I'll stick with my film gear.

03-12-2010, 12:17 AM	#649
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by JesseDavis Well I just got out of CP+ generally as a show the whole deal looked a little 1.0 Can you tell us how wide AF points put in VF. Are all close to center or not? Like this or it's relative position?

03-12-2010, 01:18 AM	#650
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by Steve Beswick I kind of felt excited for a while as well. I even thought "maybe in a couple of years, after i graduate." Then I did some math. My Mamiya 645 1000s, 80mm f1.9, and WLF are worth roughly $300. Let's be really generous and say that in five years it will be possible to buy one of these for $4,000. That is a disparity of $3,700, or over 11,000 frames of film at $5 a roll. I think I'll stick with my film gear. What about developing cost for your films? How about costs to scan and digitize your negatives or slides? How about the time waiting to process? Time to print? Is it really meaningful comparing a discontinued film camera which is fully depreciated vs a new digital camera that's just being launched? If you want to stick to your old film ways, that's fine but if you can't or are not prepared to pony up the cost for digital MF, then such math is too simplistic and useless. I'll bet the percentage of keepers with digital MF is gonna be way higher than film because there will always be a percentage of dud frames.

03-12-2010, 02:44 AM	#651
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by ogl Can you tell us how wide AF points put in VF. Are all close to center or not? There was this "cut-thru-the-middle" exhibit at CP+ (link in this thread). By the size of the auxiliary mirror and AF part in the bottom, I would say that AF points don't span a wider area. I may be wrong, though.

03-12-2010, 03:02 AM	#652
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Originally posted by johnmflores requests for tethering capability, something a CMOS MF sensor could provide, You don't need a CMOS sensor for that. A CCD can do it to.

03-12-2010, 03:49 AM	#653
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Originally posted by creampuff What about developing cost for your films? How about costs to scan and digitize your negatives or slides? How about the time waiting to process? Time to print? I do all of these things myself, so the cost is negligible. Also the time arguement is pointless, as I usually don't bother scanning anything. I make my prints the "old film" way, in a darkroom, with an enlarger and chemistry. Doing so is both faster and more fun, at least for me. Quote: Is it really meaningful comparing a discontinued film camera which is fully depreciated vs a new digital camera that's just being launched? I am comparing a price that is more than I paid to a hypothetical future price. If I wanted to be really honest I would say what I paid for the Mamiya, which is roughly $130, and use the list price for the 645D which is going to be over $10,000 with a " normal" lens when it is first available. Quote: If you want to stick to your old film ways, that's fine but if you can't or are not prepared to pony up the cost for digital MF, then such math is too simplistic and useless. I didn't realize this forum was full of nothing but the filthy rich of the world. I was also unaware that Pentax is right up there with Leica and Hasselblad. I guess I'm the only person on this forum that still sees the importance in doing a value equation when considering a multi-thousand dollar purchase. Just to make sure we are clear, even if I was Bill Gates rich I still don't think I would spend the money on the 645D. Digital MF is simply not worth the money for 99+% of photographers. Quote: I'll bet the percentage of keepers with digital MF is gonna be way higher than film because there will always be a percentage of dud frames. Funny, I get easily 10 times more keepers on average out of my lowly P3n than I do out of my K10d. I think that you will find many others on this forum that feel the same.

03-12-2010, 04:43 AM	#656
hopey Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bizkaia, Basque Country Posts: 39	Spanish site hands-on review: Google Traducir

03-12-2010, 07:46 AM	#658
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by pcarfan For some reason (well, due to lack of experience and knowledge of MF) I was expecting a lot more with the landscape shots. I thought it had enough dynamic range so we no longer would need ND grad filters, but that doesn't look to be the case... ISO1600 on the Hassy looks roughly like ISO800 on my K20D, but with less chroma noise

03-12-2010, 10:23 AM	#659
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	FYI, the Hassy H3D-50 doesn't have an AA filter either...none of the Hassy's do (I asked their tech support). They have an IR filter built in, but the sensor doesn't have an AA filter. Their Phocus RAW processing software takes care of moire issues and has some awesome moire removal code...

03-12-2010, 01:22 PM	#660
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	I tried talking to a guy about this camera but as soon as he heard pentax he went into canon FF fanboy mode.... going on and on about how his 1Ds mark X will beat anything Pentax can possibly make.... Man is the Pentax bashing getting old! I hope this camera is put up against canon's/nikon's top camera and I hope the Pentax shows them whose boss Im quite proud to be a pentaxian with this camera out. Its like being proud that we the US have the best fighter jet in the world or something

645D is here ...

Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!