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02-12-2010, 09:18 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
see my post earlier, you are talking about a different kind of rotation.
I understand what you mean. In theory, the only rotation that may not be able to be accounted for is a rotation around the lens axis. But in practice, noone will be able to perfectly rotate the camera around the lens axis only while hand holding the camera.

And we agree it would not have problem compensating any other type of rotational or circular movement as these can be translated into vertical and horizontal movements.


Last edited by ma318; 02-12-2010 at 09:29 AM.
02-12-2010, 09:19 AM   #32
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That might be it, moving the sensor in a circle as you (enoeske) describes in case 1 is of course possible, as it is a combination of x and y movements.

But rotate in the same manner as the focusring, around the z-axis, can not be done without breaking the guidance rods.

Edit, I was too slow....
02-13-2010, 01:37 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Are you a fan of Rube Goldberg?
Such a camera would be much bigger, more complex and the rotating mechanism would not perform better than just twisting your hands (which one could do much faster than in 'press a button and wait about a second or so).
That is what they said when SLR mechanisms first came out. What is wrong with looking through a little rangefinder window? Too complex!

Much bigger? These cameras are scaled to handle 24x36 film. The sensor long dimension is less than 24 mm for APS-C. You must not do much in the way of vertical shots on a tripod because this would be very handy. Rube Golberg? Maybe you like cameras more like the simplicity of a large format camera which I do use on occasion as well. I understand your point, but cameras are now electronic-high-tech devices. We might as well take advantage of what can be offered to help us.
02-13-2010, 03:27 PM   #34
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Which "scaled" cameras are you talking about?
Just think a little about how it would work. The APS-C sensor from the K-x has 23.6x25.8mm; it needs at least this much space (I'm ignoring for now the need for a sensor plate). Make it rotating, and it will need 28.4x28.4mm, just to give it room to rotate. Which means a higher height than in a FF.
But this is not enough; a mechanism for rotating the sensor (while retaining a very precise alignment) is needed; this would also need space. In fact, since the whole sensor platform must move/rotate, it would probably need a lot more than 28.4x28.4mm. I can think of several rotating mechanisms, but those who are (somewhat) compact aren't precise at all, and those who are precise are far from being compact. Do you have an idea that is both?
Otherwise, tell me, how is increasing the camera's size beyond FF level help making it more compact?

The SLR responded to a very practical request: to see through the same lens you're shooting with. They are the simplest solution, after the view camera.

02-13-2010, 03:43 PM   #35
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I think the simplest solution is to have a square sensor and a square optical viewfinder, 36mmx36mm for full frame or 24mmx24mm for aps-c. And you can choose to crop it horizontally or vertically or not at all.

But it is only a solution if enough people think there is a problem to begin with and willing to pay for the additional cost. The camera height increase would be about 10mm for aps-c.

Last edited by ma318; 02-13-2010 at 03:58 PM.
04-02-2010, 08:35 PM   #36
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See they finally did it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Photomy Quote
That is what they said when SLR mechanisms first came out. What is wrong with looking through a little rangefinder window? Too complex!

Much bigger? These cameras are scaled to handle 24x36 film. The sensor long dimension is less than 24 mm for APS-C. You must not do much in the way of vertical shots on a tripod because this would be very handy. Rube Golberg? Maybe you like cameras more like the simplicity of a large format camera which I do use on occasion as well. I understand your point, but cameras are now electronic-high-tech devices. We might as well take advantage of what can be offered to help us.
Had to add this reference regarding my idea I posted, though this is an old thread. Leaf Aptus is indeed planning on offering a rotating sensor.

Leaf releases Aptus-II 10R with rotating sensor: Digital Photography Review
04-02-2010, 09:06 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ma318 Quote
I think the simplest solution is to have a square sensor and a square optical viewfinder, 36mmx36mm for full frame or 24mmx24mm for aps-c. And you can choose to crop it horizontally or vertically or not at all.
Did you see the "Rokton" April 1st thing going around about a round sensor? Makes more sense than square because of corner performance -- the image circle is round, after all. The spoof article claims that they're doing this by making them on a hexagonal tile grid, which actually makes a lot of sense....
04-03-2010, 09:18 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Did you see the "Rokton" April 1st thing going around about a round sensor? Makes more sense than square because of corner performance -- the image circle is round, after all. The spoof article claims that they're doing this by making them on a hexagonal tile grid, which actually makes a lot of sense....
Round sensor is non sense because of manufacturing, hexagonal would be a good deal of compromise between sensor area and manufacturing issue.

I don't see an hexagonal viewfinder however Neither a round one (although less annoying than rectangular one.

04-06-2010, 03:30 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
hexagonal would be a good deal of compromise between sensor area and manufacturing issue.
Or not. Hexagon only saves 13.4% area. From sqrt(3/4).

The savings of manufacturing would be much less due to simpler cut, packaging and relaxed yield requirements in the corners for the square, maybe 0 to 5%.

A hexagonal sensor will never be produced. ... IMHO


P.S.
What I assume in all my future technology cost estimates is a rectangular sensor of
37.7 mm x (34.6 - 36.0) mm
exactly. Because it supports 16:9 landscape to 4:3 or 3:2 portrait within the 35mm image circle. It does also have 16% less surface than a hexagon containing the 35 mm image circle would have...

A rotating sensor is feasible but not such a good idea either. Because the square format of 30.6 mm^2 is an important option (yielding a high megapixel number too) missed by a rotating sensor, not to mention the complication of mechanical rotation.

Last edited by falconeye; 04-06-2010 at 03:47 PM.
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