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02-16-2010, 06:45 PM   #31
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wonder why they dont jsut update the lens with bog standard autofocus - would be nice to have a f1.2 prime with autofocus

02-16-2010, 06:58 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stormcloud Quote
wonder why they dont jsut update the lens with bog standard autofocus - would be nice to have a f1.2 prime with autofocus
And how many DA55 1.4's do you think they sell if they did that?
02-16-2010, 07:02 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by stormcloud Quote
wonder why they dont jsut update the lens with bog standard autofocus - would be nice to have a f1.2 prime with autofocus
Because it would require re-engineering the lens barrel entirely and the 50/1.2 is not well suited to a vanilla AF system due to the heavy elements.

It's very easy to remove AF (which Pentax did for the A 35-80/4-5.6 and A 80-200/4.7-5.6), but adding it is another matter.
02-16-2010, 09:06 PM   #34
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Even without the autofocus I think I would opt for the 1.2 over the DA*55 at same price. I'm probably not the only fuddy duddy that would? Well Maybe

02-16-2010, 09:33 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by erkie Quote
Even without the autofocus I think I would opt for the 1.2 over the DA*55 at same price. I'm probably not the only fuddy duddy that would? Well Maybe
While I want a 1.2...not a chance I part DA* cash for an A50/1.2 build. But I can say this....I am at the max I am willing to spend on a lens...these past couple years have really killed the fun for me.
02-18-2010, 08:24 AM   #36
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Mine says Japan on the lens barrel, but that's cos I bought it so long ago, Vietnam wasn't invented then.

It's truly great lens, get one as soon as you can.
02-18-2010, 10:17 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
While I want a 1.2...not a chance I part DA* cash for an A50/1.2 build. But I can say this....I am at the max I am willing to spend on a lens...these past couple years have really killed the fun for me.
The only thing the DA* build has over the A f1.2 is the WR and auto focus.
02-22-2010, 05:33 AM   #38
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Strange and interesting news.

02-22-2010, 05:58 AM   #39
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QuoteQuote:
Then again, with access to Hoya glass, Pentax should be kicking everyone's butt in this area!
Anyone on the planet can have access to Hoya glass. Hoya is, among other things, a glass manufacturer. They'll sell glass to you if you pay for it. There's nothing to it, really.
02-22-2010, 07:13 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Anyone on the planet can have access to Hoya glass. Hoya is, among other things, a glass manufacturer. They'll sell glass to you if you pay for it. There's nothing to it, really.
I think the point is that with Pentax a child company of Hoya, Pentax could get the glass a) cheaper, b) easier and c) quicker than anyone else. This should yield competitive advantage like most vertical integration scenarios.
02-23-2010, 01:15 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
I think the point is that with Pentax a child company of Hoya, Pentax could get the glass a) cheaper, b) easier and c) quicker than anyone else. This should yield competitive advantage like most vertical integration scenarios.
I doubt it would be faster or cheaper. I'm guessing Hoya would not want to cripple its glass division revenues to improve Pentax's performances, since the companies are managed independantly. Pentax is probably treated like just another customer, maybe like a "partner" customer. It wouldn't make much business sense to act otherwise.

Regarding "easier" access, this would imply that Hoya have some "private" glass recipes that they do not share with all the world. Again, I doubt that. They want to sell all the glass they can.

When Pentax lens designers design lenses, they use the regular catalogs, like anyone else. And they use glass from Hoya, Corning, Ohara, Schott, and anyone else who makes glass. Hoya doesn't make all the types of glass needed to design a lens, far from it. Nor does any other manufacturer.
02-23-2010, 01:26 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I doubt it would be faster or cheaper. I'm guessing Hoya would not want to cripple its glass division revenues to improve Pentax's performances, since the companies are managed independantly. Pentax is probably treated like just another customer, maybe like a "partner" customer. It wouldn't make much business sense to act otherwise.

Regarding "easier" access, this would imply that Hoya have some "private" glass recipes that they do not share with all the world. Again, I doubt that. They want to sell all the glass they can.

When Pentax lens designers design lenses, they use the regular catalogs, like anyone else. And they use glass from Hoya, Corning, Ohara, Schott, and anyone else who makes glass. Hoya doesn't make all the types of glass needed to design a lens, far from it. Nor does any other manufacturer.
How do you think Canon operates? You think they share their sensors? I think you under estimate Hoya's business savvy. Sure they want to sell all the glass they can, but they also aren't going to screw themselves over. You fail to understand that Pentax is a Hoya division and not an independent firm anymore. Tokina is independent, Pentax is not.
02-23-2010, 01:30 PM   #43
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When you are selling to yourself, the price for the product is a matter of accounting and nothing else. Which division do you want to look better? The reality is that if Pentax pays more for the glass, it just makes the camera division look worse, while if they get the glass at cost, it makes the glass division look a little worse, but in the end the company does exactly the same over all.
02-23-2010, 01:39 PM   #44
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By your logic there is no advantage whatsoever to vertical integration. But there does, in the real world, appear to be real economic advantage to this structuring. Ipso facto something is wrong with your logic. Not being an expert on the glass industry I cannot say what that might be, but would like to point out a few things.

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I'm guessing Hoya would not want to cripple its glass division revenues to improve Pentax's performances, since the companies are managed independantly.
Who said anything about "crippling"? That language is rather hyperbolic. When a vendor offers preferential rates to their biggest or best customers does that cripple them in the industry? If so, pretty well any large player in any sector has been crippled for years. If only they knew it!

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Pentax is probably treated like just another customer, maybe like a "partner" customer.
Is a "partner" customer "just another customer"? If not, we have a contradiction.

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Regarding "easier" access, this would imply that Hoya have some "private" glass recipes that they do not share with all the world.
I have no idea how the word "easier" implies this. Easier access could be as simple as having standardised accounting processes with pre-arranged paperwork, invoicing and bank details. Or it could mean dedicated sales agents. Or even advanced notice on new products not yet publicly announced. Or working together on standards. Or sharing any number of other resources. When I worked in business these practices were not uncommon.

There must be some reason Hoya bought Pentax. I am sure there were real mutual benefits from combining operations. If you believe not, then I guess you disagree with Hoya. Maybe you'll be proved right, but I hope not.
03-02-2010, 07:27 AM   #45
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The Pentax division is a drop in the ocean of Hoya glass's business.

The reasons why Hoya bought Pentax are known, they are called : medical imaging.

Lens design is not mystical, arcane, done in dark seculded places. It's done in front of computers, with any one of the three standard programs in the market : Oslo, Zemax or Code V. In those programs, you can load any lens design you made or purchased, load catalogs from all the major glassmakers, tweak the designs, change the glass, etc. You can buy a CD with 10 000 lens designs in a pinch.

Lens design is made by starting with a design that exists, and adjust it, modify it, to suit your personal needs.

Glass manufacturer would make no money if they did not sell their glass. It's a simple as that.

You can choose to trust me or not. I can only state my credentials, and walk away not really caring one way or another. Here goes:

Masters in physics : fiber optics and laser designs
PhD in physics : atmmospherical optics, optical design
Special training in lens design
Current job title : optical designer

That's not bragging. As I wrote, I don't really care one way or another. I know how to do my job
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