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03-09-2010, 05:03 PM   #106
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Just reading that and sitting here, I haven't a clue which way my lenses turn to zoom! Maybe it comes back to me when I'm actually doing it, I'm not sure. But I reckon I can adapt.

The rings being closer to the far end seems logical to me though. It means you can hold the lens more steadily while keeping a grip on the ring. Wonder why they changed though.

03-09-2010, 05:12 PM   #107
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Does anyone happen to know if the in-camera Shake Reduction has to be turned off when using an optically stabilized lens, such as the new Bigma? Will they clash, or will they work together? Is the total amount of shake reduction greater than one or the other on its own?

I know about turning off the SR when putting my K10D or my K20D on a tripod, as it can go "looking" for shake and as such can introduce "pseudo-shake". But what about handheld, and with one of the new Sigma OS lenses attached?

Anyone have an answer?

EDIT: Just found that you DO need to turn off the in-camera SR. I found it further up this thread, a couple of pages back. I had jumped straight from page 1 of the thread to the end, before I realized that there were several other pages in between. So apologies for the unnecessary question

But I still wonder what actually would happen if one were to leave the in-camera SR turned ON when using an optically-stabilized lens? Hmmmm..... anyone tried it yet?

Last edited by Derridale; 03-09-2010 at 05:25 PM.
03-09-2010, 10:47 PM   #108
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The 8-16 is indeed tempting, but I think I would be just as happy with 10 or 12mm at the wide end for my needs.

I'm very intrigued by that 85/1.4, but I hope they can keep the price down.
03-09-2010, 11:05 PM   #109
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Whats the pricing on the 8-16mm?

03-10-2010, 04:43 PM   #110
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Derridale - yonks ago there was a video around showing (I think) an Oly, with built-in stabilisation, and a stabilised lens. They stuck the cam in liveview and tried the various combinations of stabilising the combo. I seem to recall that with both turned on it was the worst result of all, ie. worse than having none on.
03-10-2010, 05:04 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
Derridale - yonks ago there was a video around showing (I think) an Oly, with built-in stabilisation, and a stabilised lens. They stuck the cam in liveview and tried the various combinations of stabilising the combo. I seem to recall that with both turned on it was the worst result of all, ie. worse than having none on.
That makes sense, not in a precise way, but in a vague way. That is, I don't understand but I'm not surprised.

This makes me think of the recommendation that you turn SR off if the camera is on a tripod. As I do more and more work with the camera on a tripod, I've gotten better at remembering to turn SR off. But I have forgotten quite often in the past, and to be honest, I've never noticed that leaving SR hurt the pictures. The pictures often sucked, but I didn't blame it on SR. :-)

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03-10-2010, 08:27 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
Whats the pricing on the 8-16mm?
I don't think any pricing has been announced yet. We will have to wait.
03-11-2010, 11:09 AM   #113
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As others have said, you need to turn off in-camera SR if you have an OS lens.

I forgot that last time I went out shooting with my 18-250, fortunately I wasn't pushing any limits so things turned out OK...

The nice thing about the OS in the lens is that it stabilizes the viewfinder AND makes the AF mechanism's job easier. (Have you ever had one of those situations where it took forever to get focus lock because you were too shaky?) I'll always want the option of having it in the body for cheaper/oddball/specialty lenses though.

03-11-2010, 11:15 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Entropy Quote
The nice thing about the OS in the lens is that it stabilizes the viewfinder AND makes the AF mechanism's job easier. (Have you ever had one of those situations where it took forever to get focus lock because you were too shaky?) I'll always want the option of having it in the body for cheaper/oddball/specialty lenses though.
I think I'll always want it in the body so I don't have to keep buying it over and over again.

I've read many times that image stabilized lenses stabilize the finder. Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but this has has never been a problem for me.

I would be reluctant to pay for image stabilization in a lens for my Pentax cameras.

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03-11-2010, 05:04 PM   #115
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Thanks for the replies, team

I guess the final arbiter is whether or not the final image is any BETTER with in-camera, in-lens, neither, or both. I seem to get pretty good results handheld with the in-camera SR on my K10D and K20D, but I haven't tried any stabilized lenses, none so far being available here in Australia that I'm aware of.

EDIT: I see that the Sigma 18-250 marketed here now has OS, but I don't have access to one to try it out.

I'm assuming that as we already have in-camera stabilization, then the benefits of in-lens stabilization would be marginal at best, if we have to turn off the in-camera SR. The difference would be between the two stabilization systems, NOT between in-lens or NO stabilization as on CaNikon and others.
03-11-2010, 06:53 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Derridale Quote
I'm assuming that as we already have in-camera stabilization, then the benefits of in-lens stabilization would be marginal at best, if we have to turn off the in-camera SR. The difference would be between the two stabilization systems, NOT between in-lens or NO stabilization as on CaNikon and others.
In a previous life I shot with a Canon 300D and had one IS lens in the form of the EF28-135 IS. Based on my experience with that combination, I would say that IS was better, both in terms of # stops reduction, consistency of shake reduction, and also being ready nearly instantaneously (with SR we need to half-press the shutter and wait 0.6s for the system to become "ready").

I'm not saying that IS is better in all cases, and of course a 6MP body would be more forgiving of shake vs. 14MP, but there was a bit of an adjustment period when I got my K20D, and I still find SR to be somewhat hit-or-miss at times.

That said, having SR available with all of my K-mount lenses (especially my fast primes) opens up more photographic opportunities.

Also, with these new Sigma OS lenses available in Pentax mount we can easily perform a controlled comparison of in-body vs. in-lens stabilization.
03-12-2010, 07:46 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
That makes sense, not in a precise way, but in a vague way. That is, I don't understand but I'm not surprised.
I don't claim any engineering expertise, but it makes intuitive sense to me that the combination of in-body and in-lens stabilisation would tend to fight each other.

Think about it this way: have you ever been in a situation where you approach another person, and both of you step the same way to avoid each other? The two of you might do this two or three times before one of you stops and lets the other make one more step to get past.

In other words, the two of you are trying to compensate for each other, but each attempt at compensation exacerbates the problem. It would be very similar for the combination of lens and body stabilisation. Each of these systems is designed on the assumption that one of the elements is fixed. Lens stabilisation assumes that the sensor is fixed, and sensor stabilisation assumes that the lens is fixed. But when both elements are moving the result is chaos.

Having said all that, it's conceivable that a system could be designed where the lens stabilisation and sensor stabilisation complement each other, but I'm pretty certain that there's nothing like that on the market at the moment.

AW
03-12-2010, 08:58 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
... it makes intuitive sense to me that the combination of in-body and in-lens stabilisation would tend to fight each other.

Think about it this way: have you ever been in a situation where you approach another person, and both of you step the same way to avoid each other? ...
Yeah, this may be a good analogy.

Well, as I said, I'm not planning to buy an optically stablized lenses any time soon, so I'm probably not going to be able to experiment with this particular problem.

Will
03-13-2010, 07:45 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
Whats the pricing on the 8-16mm?
The 8-16mm is the APS-C version of the 12-24mm for 35mm/FF DSLRs that sells for $859.00 on Amazon.
Amazon.com: Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX DG IF HSM Aspherical Ultra Wide Angle Zoom Lens for Pentax and Samsung SLR Cameras: Electronics
03-13-2010, 08:42 AM   #120
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Fyi, no pricing on the 8-16 yet, I called up the local LCE shop (Guildford) on Friday about it again. We now have a bet going, the manager thinks I'll hear the price before him through online activity
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