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03-02-2010, 08:36 AM   #46
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My decision isn't based on dxomarks final score, which indeed is a questionable index. However dxomarks individual graphs, particularly the lousy dynamic range and low snr scores does play a role. So does many other tests found on the net and if one sums it up the K7 is an excellent camera with lots of things going for it. Its Achilles heel is the sensor though, and we all know it. This is not news.

03-02-2010, 09:17 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
My decision isn't based on dxomarks final score, which indeed is a questionable index. However dxomarks individual graphs, particularly the lousy dynamic range and low snr scores does play a role. So does many other tests found on the net and if one sums it up the K7 is an excellent camera with lots of things going for it. Its Achilles heel is the sensor though, and we all know it. This is not news.
Well, that's all the point from me and the other around. A sensor doesn't make a camera. The K20D and K7 sensors are surely capable to produce excellent results in good light (and no, not all cameras are equal in those conditions)

I didn't want to go personnal, but I looked at your profile to see which kind of picture you were taking. And found nothing. Sincerely, speaking about camera qualities and forgeting about pictures themselves leads to nowhere.

Even the SD14 from Sigma has its fanbase who like the unique feeling of its results.

It's not because retouching and editing pictures is easier than ever that that the rendering choice of the brand and the sensor don't have any impact. In fact, even if digital is much more flexible than film, camera makers will chose "their" mix of iso sensitivity, color accuraty, noise reduction versus details, anti-aliasing filter strength etc... And that is not counting the sensor technology itself (CMOS, CCD, Fuji, Sigma's Foveon...)

If you're doing concert shooting I will happily admit that the Pentax K7 is not made for you. Now if you're doing landscape and travel photography, I call sheneganians.
03-02-2010, 11:14 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
My decision isn't based on dxomarks final score, which indeed is a questionable index. However dxomarks individual graphs, particularly the lousy dynamic range and low snr scores does play a role. So does many other tests found on the net and if one sums it up the K7 is an excellent camera with lots of things going for it. Its Achilles heel is the sensor though, and we all know it. This is not news.
on my part, my decision on buying a camera is not based solely on what dxomarks individual graphs, DR and SNR score says, but more heavily rely on what I need for shooting. and of course, with the benefit of testing the camera personally. without these 3 must do's, there is no way of giving a fair evaluation of a camera.

it is quite sad that there are people who wants to have a particular camera just because the review says it's good, but never really able to use such feature or advancements. some people say that they want a particular HigH ISO capable camera, but rarely or never shoots in lowlights or go past ISO800. some people want a nice dynamic range, but never knew what that means nor does it make it critical for their pictures since they dont know what it is and it's use. nor snr.

I would rather see people complain on things that they know and really need what the camera is lacking, rather than complain on things that the camera doesnt have because it didn't have a very good dxomarks score or online review.

it is more like a customer complaining for not having a mustard dispenser on the table, but would rather use a ketchup on his hamburger that is already available on the table. let's just say that some people complain too much on things that they dont have that they have little or no use of.
03-02-2010, 11:57 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
If you're doing concert shooting I will happily admit that the Pentax K7 is not made for you. Now if you're doing landscape and travel photography, I call sheneganians.

As I have a k10 now it would probably be the other way around. The K10 is better then k7 at base iso, so for landscape photography I'm better off with my k10. While for concert photography a k7 would be a step up with better low light focusing and ( while not very good) its high iso capability is better then the k10.

03-02-2010, 12:09 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote

it is quite sad that there are people who wants to have a particular camera just because the review says it's good, but never really able to use such feature or advancements. some people say that they want a particular HigH ISO capable camera, but rarely or never shoots in lowlights or go past ISO800. some people want a nice dynamic range, but never knew what that means nor does it make it critical for their pictures since they dont know what it is and it's use. nor snr.
Yes, that would be sad.

But I'm a technical nerd so I do know what it means and I push my gear to all its limits, if nothing else just to see where these limits are.
03-02-2010, 12:31 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Yes, that would be sad.

But I'm a technical nerd so I do know what it means and I push my gear to all its limits, if nothing else just to see where these limits are.
gx20 (k20) generation before k7 sensor pushed to its limit iso 6400...
people need to give this sensor some respect



thanks
scott
http://snaptphotography.webs.com/
03-03-2010, 02:44 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
As I have a k10 now it would probably be the other way around. The K10 is better then k7 at base iso, so for landscape photography I'm better off with my k10. While for concert photography a k7 would be a step up with better low light focusing and ( while not very good) its high iso capability is better then the k10.
I own both K10D and K20D, you don't. And I call tell that what you're saying is plain wrong. I've brought both cameras in many shots and the K20D pictures looks better on screen and on print and that includes base iso. That don't mean that the K10D is a bad camera, simply the K20D is better.

If you dig a little in this forum, you will find some posts from Benjikan comparing the K10D and K20D.

This superiority of the K20D over the K10D is particularly visible at 100% magnification / large prints were the paterns are more pleasing on the K20D (more grain like) I wouldn't expect the K7 to be much different even though many forumers here are saying that the K7 is a little more noisy. At the end of the day, it's how look the pictures that is important.
03-03-2010, 03:07 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
This superiority of the K20D over the K10D is particularly visible at 100% magnification / large prints were the paterns are more pleasing on the K20D (more grain like) I wouldn't expect the K7 to be much different even though many forumers here are saying that the K7 is a little more noisy. At the end of the day, it's how look the pictures that is important.
Since I'm so happy with ISO 100 on my K10D, I asked Duplo what he thought of K-7 low ISO in this thread, and as you can see he likes the K-7 better at base ISO.

03-03-2010, 03:13 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
I own both K10D and K20D, you don't. And I call tell that what you're saying is plain wrong. I've brought both cameras in many shots and the K20D pictures looks better on screen and on print and that includes base iso. That don't mean that the K10D is a bad camera, simply the K20D is better.

If you dig a little in this forum, you will find some posts from Benjikan comparing the K10D and K20D.

This superiority of the K20D over the K10D is particularly visible at 100% magnification / large prints were the paterns are more pleasing on the K20D (more grain like) I wouldn't expect the K7 to be much different even though many forumers here are saying that the K7 is a little more noisy. At the end of the day, it's how look the pictures that is important.
this is exactly the point that I was saying. basing your conclusions on reviews alone is not 100% reliable. unless you've done a real comparison will you be able to tell the difference. I think it's just his way of saying that he's not interested in either K20D or K-7 and find reasons (even fabricated) for keeping such camera. I don't think that it has to do something with being a technical nerd but rather having a subjective preference. if he says that the K10D is better than either the K20D or K-7, well it's the better camera for him. what is important is atleast you know what you are talking about, and had the cameras to show or test for actual comparisons.

what people, especially technical nerds should know, is that it takes more than reading or comparing grades to know the whole story. they had to do or see the actual tests themselves. being a tech nerd myself, I dont just rely on figures, but actual testings as well. and let me tell you, some of the tech stuffs that I had tried, is the opposite of what is written on the paper.
03-03-2010, 07:05 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
I own both K10D and K20D, you don't. And I call tell that what you're saying is plain wrong. I've brought both cameras in many shots and the K20D pictures looks better on screen and on print and that includes base iso. That don't mean that the K10D is a bad camera, simply the K20D is better.
I was talking about the K7, not the K20.
03-06-2010, 07:04 AM   #56
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Interesting thread! I have upgraded from the k10d to the K20d and the K7 and STILL USE ALL THREE in both landscape and low light situations. Great fun to mount the 21,40 and 70 DA limited lens on this trio and go shooting. On 8X10 prints, I would challenge anyone to pick which camera which produced any given image. From 100% pixel peeping you see some differences. I would rate the sensors (on the basis of RAW capture with noise reduction off): K7=K20>K10. For detail, I would rate the sensors K7>K20>K10. My friend has a Kx and we both like the little camera. The low light performance is impressive. The good news for all of us here is that these are all great choices. From a photographers perspective, however, the K7 is just such a well-thought out tool I would have to give it the nod.
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