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04-08-2010, 11:30 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by GatorPentax Quote
Yes the k7 has more dials and options and WR, but when it comes down to it, the sensor on the KX just beats the K7 sensor up and down the field; and thats a tragedy. Im hoping for a midlevel K5 with an improved KX sensor, which hopefully will lead into an even better sensor for the next K7.
the only obvious advantage of the k-x sensor is in the High ISO capability (above ISO 1600). other than that, it's not better on all ISO levels. and this advantage is only true under jpeg mode atleast. on RAW, we cannot say it still have that certain advantage. I don't think that it's tragic. both systems have different markets to sell. the k-x for entry level and the K-7 for semi-pro needs. this also applies to other brands.

anyway, in fairness to the k-x, eventhough there seems to be reports or rumors that it has a more aggressive jpeg NR, it is still way better than the competition can offer in the same market category it is in. much better and effective NR and much better details as compared to the other brands.

although, a sensor upgrade is not bad at all. especially in a growing competitive market.

04-08-2010, 11:38 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by GatorPentax Quote
good point....i stand corrected. Nevertheless, this thread should show Pentax how desperate we are for a new camera.
As opposed to all the other times when we have absolutely no desires, of course.
04-10-2010, 03:56 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I believe this is exactly how they did the first Pentax 645. It shared electronics with the 35mm Super-A, the first Pentax camera with the KA mount. Both got the same set of program mode, Tv, Av and manual. It must make sence productionwise and economically, a trick non of the other medium format makers can do since they only make MF systems.

Wonder if any of these new models will get the double SD card ability from the 645D, perhaps with the option to set it up so that video goes to one card and still pictures to the other.
I like the sound of that... and hope Pentax applies the same principle soon and releases a FF body. There is plenty of good glass around (Tamron, Sigma, old Pentax lenses) to keep users like me happy
04-10-2010, 03:57 PM   #184
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Why is everyone so sure that they're going to call it the K-5 though?

What if they just call it Special K?

(OK that was pretty lame, but I had to)

04-10-2010, 05:18 PM   #185
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Originally posted by falconeye Actually, K-7 and 645D have identical electronics. Identical down to the two main processors, buffer memory, 4 channel read-out DACs, HDMI and 921k LCD drivers. The K-7 has additional electronics for audio, the 645D for 2nd SD card.

QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I believe this is exactly how they did the first Pentax 645. It shared electronics with the 35mm Super-A, the first Pentax camera with the KA mount. Both got the same set of program mode, Tv, Av and manual. It must make sence productionwise and economically, a trick non of the other medium format makers can do since they only make MF systems.

Wonder if any of these new models will get the double SD card ability from the 645D, perhaps with the option to set it up so that video goes to one card and still pictures to the other.
IIRC there was a "change of direction" for the K-7 around December 2008, moving to the weather sealing, metal frame, ergonomics, classic SLR body references, etc., along with the electronics feature set. I have earlier surmised (with no specific information) that Pentax had already materially developed the electronics for the 645D when the K-7 was in development and integrated them backward into the K-7, not the other way around. The major specific K-7 engineering went into video.

Pres. of Hoya / Pentax in an interview posted on Luminous Landscape openly stated the 645D engineers worked with the K-7 engineers in development of both cameras. I suggest Pentax built the K-7 features and technology as they did specifically to spread the engineering costs of the 645D electronics over the much larger unit volume of the K-7. As a business decision this in part allows Pentax to sell the 645D under $10,000 US.
04-10-2010, 05:39 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by C.W Tsorotes Quote
I'd heavily doubt that, from my limited knowledge and experience with Pentax backwards compatibility is VERY important to them, why would they alienate users of the FA lenses which are renowned to be some of the best?
well why did they cripple the k mount support so the classic K mount lenses
are at best hard to use?

Considering the selection of lenses I own, clearly backwards compatibility
is very important to me but I'm nervous. Some years ago I dumped
all my pre KA lenses on ebay --- but ---

I had expected them to move SDM promptly into all lenses that they are currently producing something they haven't done, but supporting two different auto focus schemes forever doesn't seem to make sense either.
04-10-2010, 05:50 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I have earlier surmised (with no specific information) that Pentax had already materially developed the electronics for the 645D when the K-7 was in development and integrated them backward into the K-7, not the other way around.
I am not sure.

The major electronics upgrade in the current Pentax cameras is the upgrade from the Fujitsu Milbeaut M-4 processor to the Fujitsu Milbeaut M-5. However, this was made 2008 in the K-m already. The only major upgrade which came with the K-7 was the PRIME-II support asic. Video didn't add to the electronics hardware with the exception of the audio input and the aperture lever motor.

To me, this looks like a continuous electronics development roadmap not much influenced by a 645D this far down the R&D pipeline. E.g., the 645D is already the fourth Pentax camera to pick up the Milbeaut M-5.
04-10-2010, 08:11 PM   #188
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Personally i believe the Kx should have been named something else and put in the K200d body. Battery grip for those who want one, while retaining a small yet usable size without the grip. The KM was their newest model when it went KM K200d and K20d, So why replace their newest model? I think they would have been much better off with KM, KX in K200d body, and K-7.

So I say they bring back the k200d body and a K-7 replacement next.

04-10-2010, 08:36 PM   #189
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Originally posted by monochrome
I have earlier surmised (with no specific information) that Pentax had already materially developed the electronics for the 645D when the K-7 was in development and integrated them backward into the K-7, not the other way around.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I am not sure.

The major electronics upgrade in the current Pentax cameras is the upgrade from the Fujitsu Milbeaut M-4 processor to the Fujitsu Milbeaut M-5. However, this was made 2008 in the K-m already. The only major upgrade which came with the K-7 was the PRIME-II support asic. Video didn't add to the electronics hardware with the exception of the audio input and the aperture lever motor.

To me, this looks like a continuous electronics development roadmap not much influenced by a 645D this far down the R&D pipeline. E.g., the 645D is already the fourth Pentax camera to pick up the Milbeaut M-5.
Well, I did say I had no SPECIFIC information - it was (and is) just a guess.

You, OTOH, have specific information
04-10-2010, 08:39 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Personally i believe the Kx should have been named something else and put in the K200d body. Battery grip for those who want one, while retaining a small yet usable size without the grip. The KM was their newest model when it went KM K200d and K20d, So why replace their newest model? I think they would have been much better off with KM, KX in K200d body, and K-7.

So I say they bring back the k200d body and a K-7 replacement next.
One thing keeping me from retiring my K10D and upgrading to the K-7 is the additional expense of a new grip, extra batteries and other bits.

At a point a K20D body-only is an option.
04-11-2010, 01:03 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I think no camera between.
It's just upgrade of K-x with upper LCD, WR and AF points.
I also thought abot this too
04-11-2010, 01:08 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by redeleon Quote
I also thought abot this too
Well if it really is an upgrade of the K-x, then I'm going to guess that it's not going to have the K-x camera body. Instead do you think they will use the K-7's body and just strip down the features? Or will they just create an entirely new one, maybe bringing back the K200D body and changing it?
04-11-2010, 04:10 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by jct us101 Quote
Well if it really is an upgrade of the K-x, then I'm going to guess that it's not going to have the K-x camera body. Instead do you think they will use the K-7's body and just strip down the features? Or will they just create an entirely new one, maybe bringing back the K200D body and changing it?
I personally hope so because I have been waiting for a decent entry or mid level DSLR with a top LCD. The new K-x was as great as what others acclaimed but I can't live without the top LCD.
04-20-2010, 10:28 AM   #194
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Families

Quick thoughts:

12-15 months ago, Pentax made very clear statements about the coming year's cameras, if only the number (3). I've not seen any official declarations about 2010.

The statements for 2009 may have been driven by Hoya's need to convince the market that they intended to participate agressively. They may not feel that need at the moment.

If K-X and K-7 prices continue to drop, there's a void at the USD $1,200 - $1,500 price point.

This creates an opportunity to:
Continue to sell the K-x, perhaps with minor enhancements, at the $400-550 point.
Start a new "family" of WR cameras, similar to the K200D, perhaps based on the K-X - $800-$900 at launch.
Deliver an extension to the K-7 family with new sensor and some enhancements noted above - $1,300 at launch.

If the K-7 replacement can roughly hold its price for 5-10 months, we have our three pricing capabilities. After that, prices drift down together until the next round is delivered.

The real effort is to keep the separation between the two higher cameras. If the K-X sensor (or roughly similar) is found in all bodies, and the two highest are WR with the AF point issue resolved for the middle body, it gets hard to find $400 or so difference between them.

Ideas:

New family stays at about 12 MP.
New family is WR but not fully sealed, similar to the new lenses.
New family is limited in video, depth of buffer, and perhaps bracketing (compared to high end).
New family has limited external controls, like K-X.

K-7 replacement has enhanced availability of custom button/lever/switch assignment.
K-7 replacement has SR switch back on exterior.
K-7 replacement has enhanced AF-C, perhaps multi-zone, predictive, etc.
K-7 replacement does 60 FPS video (I really don't care about 720p versus 1080i)
K-7 replacement improves FPS when using corrections, filters, etc.
K-7 replacement maintains or "improves" on the 14+ MP spec.
K-7 replacement has clearly improved .jpeg. Yes, I know you all shoot raw.

Other ideas to distinguish the three families??
04-20-2010, 03:11 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Ideas:

K-7 replacement has SR switch back on exterior.

Other ideas to distinguish the three families??
SR is one of the few occasions where having to choose it in a quick menu is thought by some to be better than a hardware switch on the exterior. I belong to the group and I welcome the change. I still remember switching off SR by accident by brushing through the switch on my K10D.

Other ideas:

1. Eliminate SR lag with something similar to "eye start".
2. Automatic AF calibration.
3. More than one USER mode.
4. Top LCD illumination turned on and off manually instead of automatically.
5. Completely disable DFS.
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