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07-01-2010, 08:35 PM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
Even if they aren't planning on releasing one soon, they should at least announce the idea of one at Photokina....But I think it would be very smart of Pentax to state their intentions of when they intend to make one.
Not really. It does Pentax no good in announcing a product way before it is available. First, they will not say anything if there is no FF camera in active development, as they should always keep the option open. And if they do have a FF camera on the drawing board, announcing before it is ready (meaning unknown specs and unknown price point) could hurt the sales of their DA lenses and any upcoming models this year. I don't think Pentax would like to repeat the history of on-again, off-again, on-again..... fiasco of 645D.

07-01-2010, 08:59 PM   #317
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I could see Pentax having something like:

K-x with a soft replacement on the way

K-7 replacement that comes out at $1100 MSRP. Pretty much exactly the same body wise to keep costs down, but has a few soft improvements like the sensor. I can't see this not working as they can sell the K-7 around $800 or less right now.

A more advanced model that comes out between $1600 and $2400 depending on what is in it. It could be full frame, or something like an APS-C "machine gun" camera ala. 7D.

The 645D taking up the super high-end.
07-01-2010, 09:25 PM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
I could see Pentax having something like:

K-x with a soft replacement on the way

K-7 replacement that comes out at $1100 MSRP. Pretty much exactly the same body wise to keep costs down, but has a few soft improvements like the sensor. I can't see this not working as they can sell the K-7 around $800 or less right now.

A more advanced model that comes out between $1600 and $2400 depending on what is in it. It could be full frame, or something like an APS-C "machine gun" camera ala. 7D.

The 645D taking up the super high-end.
I think that's very likely. I like the way that sounds. I doubt they will release 3 bodies at once, and the K-x is newest. So I would think that the upper two you mentioned are likely what we'll see.
07-01-2010, 09:58 PM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
I think that's very likely. I like the way that sounds. I doubt they will release 3 bodies at once, and the K-x is newest. So I would think that the upper two you mentioned are likely what we'll see.
Yeah, I didn't word that correctly. The K-x replacement won't be for quite a long time because it's a good formula right now (good sensor, colors keep it fresh, etc...eg they can release a special color every once in a while to get a new press release out there). I was just saying that it will eventually happen and they will probably keep the same formula/price range.

The "K-7 Super" I think would be a good target at $1100 MSRP due to me personally taking the leap at around $1050 around 6 months ago. When the body hit $750 at reputable online stores, that seemed to show a good amount of excitement hence perceived value for people. The K-7 in my opinion is an awesome well thought out body. Dropping the design would be a bad idea.

Given Hoya's sound marking logic so far (their hands on the K-7, K-x, and 645D seemed to have helped Pentax profit), I would suspect they might take a move toward something higher end than K-7. I personally didn't have much interest in the 10D and 20D and I did the jump from the *ist DS (was quite a nice jump!).

I am considering a second K-7 though, so if a higher end product came out, I might opt for that instead. If Hoya does go FF with this next iteration, they might just pull a 645D-price-bomb on the FF market (say $1900 for a pretty nice WR FF Pentax, possibly aimed at landscape work).

IMO Pentax is about quality glass (FA limiteds) and a focus on the photographer (that likes to get dirty...WR). Take that mix to make something above the K-7....I don't seeing it being a machine gun camera.

07-02-2010, 04:25 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
The "K-7 Super" I think would be a good target at $1100 MSRP due to me personally taking the leap at around $1050 around 6 months ago. When the body hit $750 at reputable online stores, that seemed to show a good amount of excitement hence perceived value for people. The K-7 in my opinion is an awesome well thought out body. Dropping the design would be a bad idea.

Given Hoya's sound marking logic so far (their hands on the K-7, K-x, and 645D seemed to have helped Pentax profit), I would suspect they might take a move toward something higher end than K-7. I personally didn't have much interest in the 10D and 20D and I did the jump from the *ist DS (was quite a nice jump!).

I am considering a second K-7 though, so if a higher end product came out, I might opt for that instead. If Hoya does go FF with this next iteration, they might just pull a 645D-price-bomb on the FF market (say $1900 for a pretty nice WR FF Pentax, possibly aimed at landscape work).

IMO Pentax is about quality glass (FA limiteds) and a focus on the photographer (that likes to get dirty...WR). Take that mix to make something above the K-7....I don't seeing it being a machine gun camera.
I think Pentax K-7 has the best body of any camera in its class. After using one for several projects I think the K-7 is what I expected my E-3 to be. Size and control layout is very good. At times it seems a little too small, but not very often. I have not used any long glass with the K-7 so I might feel differently with big glass.

I have been using the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 on the K-7 and it has been a very good combination. I was shooting an event last night and at ISO 800 with f/2 I was still shooting when the dusk-to-dawn lights came on. While cleaner high ISO is alway welcome, I think the K-7 does very well with fast glass. First Sigma lens I have ever really used, and while not perfect, it is a very good piece of glass. I'll have to give the 85mm f/1.4 a try when it comes out.

When was the last "new" FA Limited lens released? I think Pentax needs to update these lenses with modern coating and some improved designs. Vignetting/softness wide-open are two problems I think need to be addressed. The SDM used by Pentax is still not up to the level of the competition, and even Sigma is farther along in this technology.
07-02-2010, 06:39 AM   #321
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I agree with you that the K-7 still has pretty good ISO performance and I, like you, don't have any big issues with it. When the K20D came out, the sensor was probably top of the class performance wise. I think one of the benefits of refreshing the K-7 with a better sensor will be to appease the picky Internet buyers who do a lot of research. At least in the USA, they probably make up a considerable percentage of buyers.

I don't know when the FA limited were released... well before 7 years ago as I remember them existing when I got my *ist DS? All three are still relevant though.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think Pentax K-7 has the best body of any camera in its class. After using one for several projects I think the K-7 is what I expected my E-3 to be. Size and control layout is very good. At times it seems a little too small, but not very often. I have not used any long glass with the K-7 so I might feel differently with big glass.

I have been using the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 on the K-7 and it has been a very good combination. I was shooting an event last night and at ISO 800 with f/2 I was still shooting when the dusk-to-dawn lights came on. While cleaner high ISO is alway welcome, I think the K-7 does very well with fast glass. First Sigma lens I have ever really used, and while not perfect, it is a very good piece of glass. I'll have to give the 85mm f/1.4 a try when it comes out.

When was the last "new" FA Limited lens released? I think Pentax needs to update these lenses with modern coating and some improved designs. Vignetting/softness wide-open are two problems I think need to be addressed. The SDM used by Pentax is still not up to the level of the competition, and even Sigma is farther along in this technology.
07-02-2010, 08:28 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
I think one of the benefits of refreshing the K-7 with a better sensor will be to appease the picky Internet buyers who do a lot of research. At least in the USA, they probably make up a considerable percentage of buyers.
They make up a considerable amount of influence over other purchasers too -- people ask their "expert" friends.

This is unfortunate, because the most respected camera review sites are those which appear the most scientific and objective. Wait — that's good, right? Can't argue with science! The problem is that the truth is that all cameras these days are within a few percentage points of completely capable. The true distinguishing characteristics for actual photography are the feel of the camera, and all the little touches which may, if you're lucky, make the "pros and cons" list.

But the mantra is "it's all about image quality!", and image quality in this sense (if not in reality) comes down to measurable numbers, leaving forum users to argue about the massive importance of trivial differences in the measuring of these numbers.
07-03-2010, 04:08 PM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
I don't know when the FA limited were released... well before 7 years ago as I remember them existing when I got my *ist DS? All three are still relevant though.
According to Bojidar Dimitrov http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/index.html:

- FA 43/1.9 Limited: 1997
- FA 77/1.8 Limited: 1999
- FA 31/1.8 AL ED Limited: 2001.

07-04-2010, 01:19 AM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote

I have been using the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 on the K-7 and it has been a very good combination. I was shooting an event last night and at ISO 800 with f/2 I was still shooting when the dusk-to-dawn lights came on. While cleaner high ISO is alway welcome, I think the K-7 does very well with fast glass. First Sigma lens I have ever really used, and while not perfect, it is a very good piece of glass. I'll have to give the 85mm f/1.4 a try when it comes out.

I have the Sigma 50 mm 1.4 and I hate it, it's wasted money!
Till F 4 the IQ is useless, close to the bottom of a Coke bottle. I expected some softness but this is more than some "natural softness", this is lack of quality.
Yes, at F 1.4 there is no DOF but there should be at least a small spot where there is some sharpness, this is what I hoped for…
The BF/FF was tuned in the body using the Tim Jackson's Focus Test Chart, notting helped, the IQ was so poor that I hardly could see the focus point on the monitor.
I retuned this lens for service where it was checked and calibrated but alas, below F 5.6…
Now, I keep the lens to use it for Immagon style pictures (if I ever made them), this is where it excels!

Philippe
07-04-2010, 06:37 AM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by philippe Quote
I have the Sigma 50 mm 1.4 and I hate it, it's wasted money!
Till F 4 the IQ is useless, close to the bottom of a Coke bottle. I expected some softness but this is more than some "natural softness", this is lack of quality.
Yes, at F 1.4 there is no DOF but there should be at least a small spot where there is some sharpness, this is what I hoped for…
The BF/FF was tuned in the body using the Tim Jackson's Focus Test Chart, notting helped, the IQ was so poor that I hardly could see the focus point on the monitor.
I retuned this lens for service where it was checked and calibrated but alas, below F 5.6…
Now, I keep the lens to use it for Immagon style pictures (if I ever made them), this is where it excels!

Philippe
It's a Sigma, quality control can sometimes be iffy. You simply got a bad copy. Return it for another copy or re-calibration.
07-04-2010, 07:19 AM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by philippe Quote
I have the Sigma 50 mm 1.4 and I hate it, it's wasted money!
Till F 4 the IQ is useless, close to the bottom of a Coke bottle. I expected some softness but this is more than some "natural softness", this is lack of quality.
Yes, at F 1.4 there is no DOF but there should be at least a small spot where there is some sharpness, this is what I hoped for…
The BF/FF was tuned in the body using the Tim Jackson's Focus Test Chart, notting helped, the IQ was so poor that I hardly could see the focus point on the monitor.
I retuned this lens for service where it was checked and calibrated but alas, below F 5.6…
Now, I keep the lens to use it for Immagon style pictures (if I ever made them), this is where it excels!

Philippe
I just picked up a K-7 with the lens after using the same combination several times. Focus tests show that very close subjects at f/1.4 are soft and there is some lateral CA. F/1.8 it is barely noticeable, any by f/2.0 it is a very sharp lens. DOF even on a 1.5 crop makes the lens a challenge, but it is nothing like my 5D w/85L. Bokeh is excellent and from f/2.0 on this lens is excellent. I do mainly event photography with people moving about and talking. F/1.4 is nice, but DOF is so shallow that a simple turn of the head and the subject face moves out of the plane of focus.

I shot a few dozen test shots as I played with the AF adjustment. This is the first Sigma I have owned and fully expected it to need adjustment. I ended up leaving it at zero. I will definitely take a look at the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 when it is released.

I wish Pentax would bring back the 28-75 and the 80-200 FA lenses. I prefer longer glass and enjoy using standard full frame glass on crop sensors. Given that these lenses sell for $1,500 used there must be a pretty strong demand.

If the K-7 is any indication of the direction Pentax plans to go, then the K-7 replacement will be a very impressive camera (assuming they take a big step forward with AF).
07-09-2010, 09:01 PM   #327
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I must say that I take my negative views on the 5D Mk2. After hanging out with another photographer last night who shoots with one I was utterly shocked by how good the images are on it especially under TERRIBLE lighting conditions what shocked me even more was the difference of FF with a 50mm lens. We looked at the same lens, same angle, etc using a 7D and a 5D the cropping was night and day.

Also I reverse my views that APS-C is good enough, well yes it is but I must admit FF is so much better, I have seen the light. BRING ON A FF camera.
07-09-2010, 09:38 PM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by C.W Tsorotes Quote
I must say that I take my negative views on the 5D Mk2. After hanging out with another photographer last night who shoots with one I was utterly shocked by how good the images are on it especially under TERRIBLE lighting conditions what shocked me even more was the difference of FF with a 50mm lens. We looked at the same lens, same angle, etc using a 7D and a 5D the cropping was night and day.

Also I reverse my views that APS-C is good enough, well yes it is but I must admit FF is so much better, I have seen the light. BRING ON A FF camera.
Welcome in my world... You just took the red pill and woke up in the real world.
Now, imagine that D700 is even better in difficult conditions than 5d markII... You understand why I dream of a FF camera for months now.
07-09-2010, 11:07 PM   #329
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just imagine using your legendary fullframe lenses for what they were supposed to render. this is exactly the reason why I need full-frame. to be able to use a certain particular lens for it's real use.
07-10-2010, 01:13 AM   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
just imagine using your legendary fullframe lenses for what they were supposed to render. this is exactly the reason why I need full-frame. to be able to use a certain particular lens for it's real use.
I have just bought the FA* 80-200 and I now feel the lack of a FF camera even more than before
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