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03-17-2010, 06:51 AM   #1
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645D no AA filter, for landscapes

Thought this might be worth a new 645 thread. Seems the "party line" marketing hasn't changed from the old Pentax. This is, and was, what they considered the orig. 645 was best at.
Removable AA would probably have been best. At that price some could offer 2 body's. One with and one without an AA filter.

[Interview] Hoya Aims Medium Format Digital SLR Camera at Scenery -- Tech-On!


Many of our users said that they once started to use SLR cameras equipped with image sensors of 35mm-film size but returned to medium format cameras.
Interesting........

However, there has so far been no digital medium format camera that is designed for amateur photographers and has a reasonable price. Leica Camera AG's "S2" is a portable medium format digital camera like the Pentax 645D. But it is four times as expensive as the Pentax 645D.........Though lowpass filters prevent moire, they lower resolution. And we see it as a problem. In addition, moire rarely occurs as long as the camera is used to take pictures of scenery, which is the main target of the camera

03-17-2010, 06:56 AM   #2
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So - architechts should avoid it? Or fashion photographers when photographing pin-striped clothing
03-17-2010, 07:14 AM   #3
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AFAIK, all MF cameras have no AA filters, so this is just being normal.

The software for RAW conversion takes care of this (at least Hassy's does). And it takes care of moire *really* well...
I'd suggest you dig into it to see how much of a problem it really is.

I upgraded from a K10D to K20D and noticed the K20D is fuzzier when pixel peeping (I'm guessing from the stronger AA filter)...
03-17-2010, 07:20 AM   #4
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In the interview that was posted in the other thread the PLM said that fashion photogs or those using this camera in a professional setting typically have the software skills to deal with the moire making it a non-issue.

03-17-2010, 07:26 AM   #5
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Leica S2 is not 4 times the money 645D is

Leica S2 is not 4 times the money 645D is.

Leica | S2 SLR Digital Camera (Body) | 10801 | B&H Photo Video

$22995 versus $9400

S2 is 2.45 times the money but the Leica glass is crazy expensive.

Though I'll assume Leica glass its actually designed for digital sensors.

We have yet to see how old 645 and 6x7 film lenses hold up on CCD sensor.

I'm guessing old 645 and 6x7 lenses will exhibit extreme purple fringing, chromatic abertations just like my old K Mount glass exhibits on my 1st CCD sensor K-Mount Dslr.

I've already read Pentax want to make in the future a CMOS 645D so I'll guess they already know about the problems using film era glass with 645D CCD sensor.

Last edited by Samsungian; 03-17-2010 at 07:31 AM.
03-17-2010, 07:31 AM   #6
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Check out what she's wearing: 06.jpg (image)
03-17-2010, 07:35 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
AFAIK, all MF cameras have no AA filters, so this is just being normal.

The software for RAW conversion takes care of this (at least Hassy's does). And it takes care of moire *really* well...
I'd suggest you dig into it to see how much of a problem it really is.

I upgraded from a K10D to K20D and noticed the K20D is fuzzier when pixel peeping (I'm guessing from the stronger AA filter)...
Well, I'm in the same situation as you, and in my experience, the K10D showing more patterns, the K20D being more "grainy" at 100% (in the good acceptation of the term) If you add that to the 14Mpx vs 10Mpx, then you are able to make much larger prints with the K20D.
03-17-2010, 07:38 AM   #8
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I have seen moire problems in nature/scenery shots from my k10d. It can turn up in water (small waves in combination with reflections) or in between branches on bushes. These aren't so much a long repetitive pattern but more a couple of sharp lines that causes a few faulty pixels to appear. A few pixels doesn't sound like much but when large parts of a shrubbery is affected it can look quite weird. You need to pixel peep though, but nevertheless.

Worst case I've had was in between light rays from a streetlamp. A very large area was affected in mid-air, nothing but thousands of thin light rays from the lamp and lots of moire.

03-17-2010, 08:00 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Leica S2 is not 4 times the money 645D is.

Leica | S2 SLR Digital Camera (Body) | 10801 | B&H Photo Video

$22995 versus $9400

S2 is 2.45 times the money but the Leica glass is crazy expensive.
Leica new lenses are outstanding, but it never cover 56*41.5 mm sensor.
As for prices, it's more correct to compare Japanese prices.

http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/promotion/newtopics/detail/10000000000000006778/index.html
¥848,000

I can't find price of S2 in Japan. But it seems to me - close to $25000.

Last edited by ogl; 03-17-2010 at 08:16 AM.
03-17-2010, 08:06 AM   #10
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True, Leica is for sale in USA and 645D is not

True, Leica is for sale in USA and 645D is not

So Japan market price comparisions 645D versus S2 are it.

Maybe one day 645D will sell in USA and then the 2.45x cost factor will matter?

Then again by the time 645D comes to USA maybe the Leica S2 will cost less due to price competition from Pentax 645D launch price

645D price point has shaken things up. $9400 seemed like alot of money, now its nothing for people to consider spending on a camera
03-17-2010, 08:30 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Leica new lenses are outstanding, but it never cover 56*41.5 mm sensor.
That's exactly why the Pentax 6x7 was more popular in the rag trade (both meanings of the term...) than the more illustrious and sharper-lensed Hassy. Sure, the Zeiss lenses were sharper, but they were projecting on to a negative that was smaller than the Pentax's. And, because the Hassy was 6x6, you then had to severely crop down the square neg to a rectangle to fill the page. So it's quite conceivable a future Pentax 645 would effectively out-resolve the S2.
03-17-2010, 10:44 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
So Japan market price comparisions 645D versus S2 are it.

Maybe one day 645D will sell in USA and then the 2.45x cost factor will matter?
That's one home market vs. the other ...

In Germany, a Pentax Europe executive (from France) indicated the 645D will sell for €10.000,- while the S2 sells for €18.600,- incl. 19% VAT ($21.500,- w/o VAT).

That's 1.86x, not 2.45x or 4x ... -- so, let's say 2x.

On the other hand, I am confident that S2 prices will remain stable. Leica is like Apple. Launch price forever


As for the resolution: Can 645D+ outresolve the S2+? Maybe, but not before S2+ went to 4m which means 84 MPixels. S2 lenses are clearly made for better than 6 m.
03-17-2010, 12:17 PM   #13
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The 10k price, however, was with a lens, so I figure 9k for the body only (I do not think that there are "cheap" kit lenses for MF), and you are back to about a factor of two.

Let's wait and see when it arrives.
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