GR III Sharpness

**sibyrnes** · 02-07-2022, 05:45 PM

I think I am becoming spoiled by the incredible sharpness of images taken with my GR. I went out yesterday to get some winter photos with my GR and K1/DFA 28-105. After comparing photos I have to say I am disappointed in the sharpness of the K1 with that lens. Of course there is more to a photo than sharpness but the GR seems to have it all when it come to image quality. Any similar experiences?

JPT · 02-07-2022, 06:49 PM - **1 Like**

Similar experience here. I just got a K-3 III, and I'm finding that none of the lenses I have can get equivalent performance to the GR III, except the DA40 and the FA77 Ltd. Especially, the DA 20-40, the DA21 and the DA15, which I like in general, are really tested by the sensor resolution. Of course you can stop these down and sharpness isn't everything, but when you also have a GR II in your bag, you do start to feel that some other lenses are redundant.

I'd be interested to see a comparative review of the GR III, the DA* 11-18 and the DA* 16-50 PLM at 18mm to see whether they can match the quality.

The GR has always had good lenses. A few months ago I watched an interview with the GR designers, inlcuding the guy who does all the optical designs. They already had a very sharp 6-element lens in the GR and GR II, but they were asked to reduce it to 5 elements to make space for the sensor shoft mechanism in the GR III. It's incredible that they managed to do this while still increasing the sharpness. They are real miracle workers.

**jumbleview** · 02-07-2022, 08:04 PM

I wonder if the same is true regarding Ricoh GR IIIx.

biz-engineer · 02-07-2022, 10:28 PM

Yes, GRIII are sharp. I found that my 28-105 is sharp (I printed 30x40") but only at shutter speeds faster than 1/200 or slower than 1/8 or MLU or electronic shutter. I use the 2 s. timer, but I hate when the mirror goes up and can't see what I'm photographing until exposure is completed. That mirror slap on the K1 makes it more difficult to get tack sharp images at intermediate shutter speed, and it would be worse if the body was lighter than it is now (~1kg). Mirrorless cameras (e.g GR) don't have that limitation, and I guess the GR lens designs are optimized to the body. From what I've seen , the GRiii is so good, I could print the same size as with the K1, but GRIII being a quarter of a K1 in size that let me thinking..

**jumbleview** · 02-07-2022, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Yes, GRIII are sharp. I found that my 28-105 is sharp (I printed 30x40") but only at shutter speeds faster than 1/200 or slower than 1/8 or MLU or electronic shutter. I use the 2 s. timer, but I hate when the mirror goes up and can't see what I'm photographing until exposure is completed. That mirror slap on the K1 makes it more difficult to get tack sharp images at intermediate shutter speed, and it would be worse if the body was lighter than it is now (~1kg). Mirrorless cameras (e.g GR) don't have that limitation, and I guess the GR lens designs are optimized to the body. From what I've seen , the GRiii is so good, I could print the same size as with the K1, but GRIII being a quarter of a K1 in size that let me thinking..

If root cause is the mirror movement shooting in the live view should fix it, right?

biz-engineer · 02-07-2022, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by jumbleview

If root cause is the mirror movement shooting in the live view should fix it, right?

Yes it does. I use LV or 2 s. timer, or MLU. The best is 2 s. timer in live view with SR enabled, or electronic shutter (in LV) on tripod. When I got the K1, I compared it with K3 , same lens , same test target, over a range of shutter speeds I couldn't tell the difference between 24Mpixels and 36Mpixels. In theory the 36Mpixel K1 should give more resolutions, but in practice there are some shooting conditions where it's not the case.

house · 02-08-2022, 12:20 AM

I've mentioned it before and asked if people think the grs are sharper due to design intent or limitations of k mount.

The difference is so stark but the same people are involved in the design.

Buntzbooze · 02-08-2022, 12:32 AM

My GRII beats all of my Pentax lenses, not just in terms of sharpness, but also aberations, flare control and overall image quality. Thats not a critisism of my Pentax lenses, the GR lens is just that good. The closest I can get to the GR 'look' on my KP is with the fairly under rated FA28mm. Any wider and I tend to use the Ricoh. The 16mp GRii sensor might hide some of the lenses faults more than the 24mp on my KP/K70, and there is obviously no comparison in terms of the flexibilty and AF performance of my DSLRs, but until it inevitably stops working, my GR2 stays in my bag as my go to wide angle 'lens'.

**Stefan Jr** · 02-08-2022, 03:32 AM

Many of the Ricoh GR III photos I've seen has optically been nothing short of incredibly impressive. Astonishing for such a tiny camera.
I would gladly replace my DSLR set-up with a GR if Ricoh solves the issue with sensor dust (f. ex. with a fixed lens). Then it's bye bye big bulky gear and hello pocket camera.

cport · 02-08-2022, 04:39 AM

It always depends on the lens you use ... I have KP and GR III, thus, silimilar, maybe the same sensors. After buying DA* 11-18 and GR III I was amazed how sharp the pictures are.

Wrt K-1 II - note that the sensor does have higher resolution (which could influence your feeling of sharpness). Moreover, the IBIS in K-1 II does have an occasional tendency to get a bit blured images when shot at approx 1/100 ...

Anyway - new Ricoh (Pentax) products are simply amazing

biz-engineer · 02-08-2022, 04:59 AM

Two GRIII bodies cost less than a K3III , and no much more than one DA*16-50 lens. Part of the reason why DSLR stuff may cost more is related to the lower sales volumes, GR cameras sell in more quantities, more an evolution of compact cameras of the past. A full frame GR could be interesting to have along with DSLRs.

**BigMackCam** · 02-08-2022, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Two GRIII bodies cost less than a K3III , and no much more than one DA*16-50 lens. Part of the reason why DSLR stuff may cost more is related to the lower sales volumes

Possibly, but it's also because there's no mirror assembly and OVF, no separate PDAF setup, less quantity of casing materials, control buttons etc., no weather sealing (hence no gaskets, or fewer of them, and simpler case construction), no separate lens mount / aperture control mechanism / electrical contacts. All that stuff adds up to considerably lower manufacturing costs, I'm sure...

btnapa · 02-08-2022, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by sibyrnes

K1/DFA 28-105

I do not have any of the GR variety. I will get a GRIII at some point. The K1/28-105 combo I have is very sharp. So much so that I do not use my FA Limited trio that much because the 28-105 delivers the goods every time. The issue I have with the K1/28-105 combo is that K1 does not always get the focus right. I have more misses than I care for.

**jumbleview** · 02-08-2022, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Yes it does. I use LV or 2 s. timer, or MLU. The best is 2 s. timer in live view with SR enabled, or electronic shutter (in LV) on tripod. When I got the K1, I compared it with K3 , same lens , same test target, over a range of shutter speeds I couldn't tell the difference between 24Mpixels and 36Mpixels. In theory the 36Mpixel K1 should give more resolutions, but in practice there are some shooting conditions where it's not the case.

How to achieve 2 s timer together with SR enabled? I see (KP) SR is off as soon as timer is set.

**acoufap** · 02-08-2022, 09:48 AM - **1 Like**

No mention of SOOC jpg images or raw pp development … so I don‘t know what I can take from this thread - until now.

02-07-2022, 05:45 PM	#1
sibyrnes Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 447	GR III Sharpness I think I am becoming spoiled by the incredible sharpness of images taken with my GR. I went out yesterday to get some winter photos with my GR and K1/DFA 28-105. After comparing photos I have to say I am disappointed in the sharpness of the K1 with that lens. Of course there is more to a photo than sharpness but the GR seems to have it all when it come to image quality. Any similar experiences?

02-07-2022, 10:50 PM	#6
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by jumbleview If root cause is the mirror movement shooting in the live view should fix it, right? Yes it does. I use LV or 2 s. timer, or MLU. The best is 2 s. timer in live view with SR enabled, or electronic shutter (in LV) on tripod. When I got the K1, I compared it with K3 , same lens , same test target, over a range of shutter speeds I couldn't tell the difference between 24Mpixels and 36Mpixels. In theory the 36Mpixel K1 should give more resolutions, but in practice there are some shooting conditions where it's not the case. Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-07-2022 at 10:55 PM.

02-08-2022, 03:32 AM	#9
Stefan Jr Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 338	Many of the Ricoh GR III photos I've seen has optically been nothing short of incredibly impressive. Astonishing for such a tiny camera. I would gladly replace my DSLR set-up with a GR if Ricoh solves the issue with sensor dust (f. ex. with a fixed lens). Then it's bye bye big bulky gear and hello pocket camera. Last edited by Stefan Jr; 02-08-2022 at 08:32 AM.

02-08-2022, 04:39 AM	#10
cport Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 428	... It always depends on the lens you use ... I have KP and GR III, thus, silimilar, maybe the same sensors. After buying DA* 11-18 and GR III I was amazed how sharp the pictures are. Wrt K-1 II - note that the sensor does have higher resolution (which could influence your feeling of sharpness). Moreover, the IBIS in K-1 II does have an occasional tendency to get a bit blured images when shot at approx 1/100 ... Anyway - new Ricoh (Pentax) products are simply amazing

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02-07-2022, 06:49 PM - 1 Like	#2
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	Similar experience here. I just got a K-3 III, and I'm finding that none of the lenses I have can get equivalent performance to the GR III, except the DA40 and the FA77 Ltd. Especially, the DA 20-40, the DA21 and the DA15, which I like in general, are really tested by the sensor resolution. Of course you can stop these down and sharpness isn't everything, but when you also have a GR II in your bag, you do start to feel that some other lenses are redundant. I'd be interested to see a comparative review of the GR III, the DA* 11-18 and the DA* 16-50 PLM at 18mm to see whether they can match the quality. The GR has always had good lenses. A few months ago I watched an interview with the GR designers, inlcuding the guy who does all the optical designs. They already had a very sharp 6-element lens in the GR and GR II, but they were asked to reduce it to 5 elements to make space for the sensor shoft mechanism in the GR III. It's incredible that they managed to do this while still increasing the sharpness. They are real miracle workers.

02-07-2022, 08:04 PM	#3
jumbleview Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 1,068	I wonder if the same is true regarding Ricoh GR IIIx.

02-07-2022, 10:28 PM	#4
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Yes, GRIII are sharp. I found that my 28-105 is sharp (I printed 30x40") but only at shutter speeds faster than 1/200 or slower than 1/8 or MLU or electronic shutter. I use the 2 s. timer, but I hate when the mirror goes up and can't see what I'm photographing until exposure is completed. That mirror slap on the K1 makes it more difficult to get tack sharp images at intermediate shutter speed, and it would be worse if the body was lighter than it is now (~1kg). Mirrorless cameras (e.g GR) don't have that limitation, and I guess the GR lens designs are optimized to the body. From what I've seen , the GRiii is so good, I could print the same size as with the K1, but GRIII being a quarter of a K1 in size that let me thinking..

02-07-2022, 10:47 PM	#5
jumbleview Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 1,068	Originally posted by biz-engineer Yes, GRIII are sharp. I found that my 28-105 is sharp (I printed 30x40") but only at shutter speeds faster than 1/200 or slower than 1/8 or MLU or electronic shutter. I use the 2 s. timer, but I hate when the mirror goes up and can't see what I'm photographing until exposure is completed. That mirror slap on the K1 makes it more difficult to get tack sharp images at intermediate shutter speed, and it would be worse if the body was lighter than it is now (~1kg). Mirrorless cameras (e.g GR) don't have that limitation, and I guess the GR lens designs are optimized to the body. From what I've seen , the GRiii is so good, I could print the same size as with the K1, but GRIII being a quarter of a K1 in size that let me thinking.. If root cause is the mirror movement shooting in the live view should fix it, right?

02-08-2022, 12:20 AM	#7
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	I've mentioned it before and asked if people think the grs are sharper due to design intent or limitations of k mount. The difference is so stark but the same people are involved in the design.

02-08-2022, 12:32 AM	#8
Buntzbooze Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 60	My GRII beats all of my Pentax lenses, not just in terms of sharpness, but also aberations, flare control and overall image quality. Thats not a critisism of my Pentax lenses, the GR lens is just that good. The closest I can get to the GR 'look' on my KP is with the fairly under rated FA28mm. Any wider and I tend to use the Ricoh. The 16mp GRii sensor might hide some of the lenses faults more than the 24mp on my KP/K70, and there is obviously no comparison in terms of the flexibilty and AF performance of my DSLRs, but until it inevitably stops working, my GR2 stays in my bag as my go to wide angle 'lens'.

02-08-2022, 04:59 AM	#11
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Two GRIII bodies cost less than a K3III , and no much more than one DA*16-50 lens. Part of the reason why DSLR stuff may cost more is related to the lower sales volumes, GR cameras sell in more quantities, more an evolution of compact cameras of the past. A full frame GR could be interesting to have along with DSLRs.

02-08-2022, 06:21 AM	#12
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Originally posted by biz-engineer Two GRIII bodies cost less than a K3III , and no much more than one DA*16-50 lens. Part of the reason why DSLR stuff may cost more is related to the lower sales volumes Possibly, but it's also because there's no mirror assembly and OVF, no separate PDAF setup, less quantity of casing materials, control buttons etc., no weather sealing (hence no gaskets, or fewer of them, and simpler case construction), no separate lens mount / aperture control mechanism / electrical contacts. All that stuff adds up to considerably lower manufacturing costs, I'm sure...

02-08-2022, 09:14 AM	#13
btnapa Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,615	Originally posted by sibyrnes K1/DFA 28-105 I do not have any of the GR variety. I will get a GRIII at some point. The K1/28-105 combo I have is very sharp. So much so that I do not use my FA Limited trio that much because the 28-105 delivers the goods every time. The issue I have with the K1/28-105 combo is that K1 does not always get the focus right. I have more misses than I care for.

02-08-2022, 09:34 AM	#14
jumbleview Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 1,068	Originally posted by biz-engineer Yes it does. I use LV or 2 s. timer, or MLU. The best is 2 s. timer in live view with SR enabled, or electronic shutter (in LV) on tripod. When I got the K1, I compared it with K3 , same lens , same test target, over a range of shutter speeds I couldn't tell the difference between 24Mpixels and 36Mpixels. In theory the 36Mpixel K1 should give more resolutions, but in practice there are some shooting conditions where it's not the case. How to achieve 2 s timer together with SR enabled? I see (KP) SR is off as soon as timer is set.

02-08-2022, 09:48 AM - 1 Like	#15
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	No mention of SOOC jpg images or raw pp development … so I don‘t know what I can take from this thread - until now.