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12-04-2011, 09:50 PM   #1621
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
They really need to do something "outside the box".
Pentax can be a little weird, so be careful what you wish for Don't tempt them.

Too 'out of the box' might just mean 'out of business'.

All Pentax need to do - speaking about FF - would be to produce a Pentax D700 or 5D2 clone, and a few new FA* equiv lenses, and that would be a pretty credible entry into the FF market, and everyone who cares about Pentax FF would be happy.

12-04-2011, 10:33 PM   #1622
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Re-release the FA* 300 2.8 and the 80-200 2.8 and the 85 1.4 <drool>
12-04-2011, 11:41 PM   #1623
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
There are 2 APS-H sensors still in production as the Canon 1DIV is still being sold, and the Leica M-8 has a Kodak APS-H sensor. That is 3 FF sensors vs 2 APS-H.
Not really:
- there is only one APS-H sensor I know of, the Kodak (Platinum Equity) one - and I'm talking about the newly launched KAI-16050. Canon don't sell sensors to anyone.
- FF sensors: Kodak (Platinum Equity) KAI-16070, Sony would most likely have a new sensor (no Canon, no old sensors - sorry!), STM.
So it's 3:1... at least But... is the KAI-16050, the only APS-H choice I know of, good enough? If not, can they find a custom solution that would offer a superior IQ than that of APS-C? For what price?
12-05-2011, 02:45 AM   #1624
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Not really:
- there is only one APS-H sensor I know of, the Kodak (Platinum Equity) one - and I'm talking about the newly launched KAI-16050. Canon don't sell sensors to anyone.
- FF sensors: Kodak (Platinum Equity) KAI-16070, Sony would most likely have a new sensor (no Canon, no old sensors - sorry!), STM.
So it's 3:1... at least But... is the KAI-16050, the only APS-H choice I know of, good enough? If not, can they find a custom solution that would offer a superior IQ than that of APS-C? For what price?
Well I don't doubt that Samsung will sensors at any size to customers who want one. I haven't seen any test of that NX200 sensor, so that would be great to see.

The Pentax can order any size of sensor from that Samsung wafer they like. It can be made MF 56x42mm and all the way down to Q. I have no idea how the costs go up with larger sensors (there is stitching, larger surface and waste of production due to spickels that are more costy with larger sensors).

Getting a sensor from Canon is something that I also don't believe, but I wouldn't mind if Pentax would ask for a nice small slize of that new 1Dx sensor and cut out a large 4/3th of 28x21mm with (only) 12 megapixel. That would be the best sensor to get I guess (for me).

If Pentax can get the sensor's used, developed and produced bij Nikon/Sony is also a good question.

12-05-2011, 03:14 AM   #1625
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Move the K-5 line to ASP-H to compete with APS-C bodies like the Canon 7D and Nikon 300.
And you've just screwed and pissed off every user who has invested in this system up to now, and doesn't have all FF capable lenses. So I get to use a K-r line or reduced resolution K-5 line? I don't think so. I'd jump ship on principle alone.
12-05-2011, 03:38 AM   #1626
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well I don't doubt that Samsung will sensors at any size to customers who want one. I haven't seen any test of that NX200 sensor, so that would be great to see.
.
NX200 sensor is better than 14.6 MP sensor for 1-1.5 f-stop IMO.
12-05-2011, 06:58 AM   #1627
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I haven't seen any test of that NX200 sensor, so that would be great to see.

it would be nice to know as well. the funny thing is the NX200 has been out for like 2 months and still we have yet to wait for a review. while the NEX-7 which came out just the same time at very limited stocks I think and having a problem providing a copy just got evaluated by LL and DxOmarks. if we continue to see this kind of trend, I think we can count on DxOmarks to have a review of the NX 6 months from now, and LL not having a review ever. if LL does indeed review the camera, the worry is that LL might say the camera came late to even impress them.
12-05-2011, 07:01 AM   #1628
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
And you've just screwed and pissed off every user who has invested in this system up to now, and doesn't have all FF capable lenses. So I get to use a K-r line or reduced resolution K-5 line? I don't think so. I'd jump ship on principle alone.
Most of the DA* lenses will work with APS-H, so I'm not sure who would be pissed off. One of the reasons that APS-H comes up is that it is the largest that will still work with the DA glass. Why does that piss you off?

12-05-2011, 07:25 AM   #1629
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Most of the DA* lenses will work with APS-H, so I'm not sure who would be pissed off. One of the reasons that APS-H comes up is that it is the largest that will still work with the DA glass. Why does that piss you off?
Will it work with DA16-45? DA12-24? DA21 Ltd? DA15 Ltd? DA35 Macro Ltd?
12-05-2011, 07:31 AM   #1630
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Will it work with DA16-45? DA12-24? DA21 Ltd? DA15 Ltd? DA35 Macro Ltd?
Most of these lenses have been tested on FF and will vignette a bit. the smaller aps-h frame should allow them all to work (maybe the 12-24 will be an issue at the wide and possibly the 15. the others should be fine)
Of course until there is an apsh to test them on there is no way to know definitively. (Perhaps if someone has them and shoots on film then does the apsh crop to the resulting scans....

As cool as the idea of an apsh cam is with only the one Kodak sensor to choose from (aside from hypothetical they can cut any size you want answer)
I doubt it will come to fruition
12-05-2011, 07:36 AM   #1631
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Pentax can be a little weird, so be careful what you wish for Don't tempt them.

Too 'out of the box' might just mean 'out of business'.

All Pentax need to do - speaking about FF - would be to produce a Pentax D700 or 5D2 clone, and a few new FA* equiv lenses, and that would be a pretty credible entry into the FF market, and everyone who cares about Pentax FF would be happy.
If Pentax does produce a FF clone I hope it is of an A900. If Pentax takes the "ME TOO" path I hope they are prepared to advertise the hell out of it. The "ME TOO" path did not work great for Sony even with their marketing and exposure.

Fuji on the other hand rolled out the X100 and let the internet and user excitement do all the work. The X100 is not a perfect camera by a long shot. Fixed lens, clunky menu system, but it was a step in the right direction.
12-05-2011, 07:41 AM   #1632
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Will it work with DA16-45? DA12-24? DA21 Ltd? DA15 Ltd? DA35 Macro Ltd?
Depending on the size of APS-H I guess. The bigger the sensor, you will find more problems with the above mentioned lenses (and ofcourse DA*16-50mm). The wider the lens is the more difficult it will get. I think that for APS-H and for FF there is a need for some new wide-angle lenses.
12-05-2011, 07:47 AM   #1633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I don't really expect Pentax to take this path since they seem to prefer to follow Nikon and Sony. With Sony, Nikon, & Pentax all using the same sensors it makes it hard for Pentax to separate themselves and attract those new camera buyers who have been exposed to WAY more marketing from Sony and Nikon. Pentax is the little known "ME TOO" camera maker that only old school photographers know anything about. They really need to do something "outside the box"...... other than the "Q"
Catch-22.

If Pentax does not follow the traditional DSLR format, then the legacy lenses and loyal customers will exit.
12-05-2011, 08:15 AM   #1634
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Catch-22.

If Pentax does not follow the traditional DSLR format, then the legacy lenses and loyal customers will exit.
agreed. everything other than the K mount would be the death of Pentax. it would be Pentax Ricoh
so, I believe they should go the APS-H route, to differentiate themself and still keep the legacy thing going for themselves.
12-05-2011, 08:50 AM   #1635
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well I don't doubt that Samsung will sensors at any size to customers who want one. I haven't seen any test of that NX200 sensor, so that would be great to see.

The Pentax can order any size of sensor from that Samsung wafer they like. It can be made MF 56x42mm and all the way down to Q. I have no idea how the costs go up with larger sensors (there is stitching, larger surface and waste of production due to spickels that are more costy with larger sensors).
Would it be cheap enough? Would it be good enough?
I'm afraid making such large sensors is not a trivial task; on the contrary, very expensive machinery is required. If Pentax is their only customer, for probably less than a thousand sensors per year - I can't see it happening.
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