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12-12-2011, 10:28 PM   #1906
ogl
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
With SLR you have significant shutter lag. And it's highly unlikely there's room for improvement. But this is different story with EVF. They can increase read speed as well as processing speed. The battery drain is different story of course. IMO it's the most sophisticated problem now.
NEX-7 and A77 has better prefocused lag time, but I don't see how it has an influence on full AF lag time.

Sony Alpha NEX-7 Compact System Camera Performance - Initial Test

Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode 0.223 second
Prefocused 0.022 second

Pentax K-5 Camera Performance - Full Review
Full Autofocus Single Area
(center) AF 0.104 second

Pre-focused 0.092 second

Sony Alpha SLT-A77 Camera Performance - Hands-On Preview
A77 -
Full Autofocus
Single Area (center) AF 0.124 second


Sony doesn't make digital cameras of PRO-level functional, by the way.

They can't compete with Canon 1Dx - NEVER. They can choose OLD STONE technology like SLT or increase speed of readout of EVF, but they never
even be close to DSLR like Canon 1Dx or new Nikon D800/D*X.

Between Sony and Canon/Nikon technologies is the huge chasm


Last edited by ogl; 12-13-2011 at 12:43 AM.
12-12-2011, 10:31 PM   #1907
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QuoteOriginally posted by markac Quote
"“According to my source, Pentax will release a 35mm full-frame DSLR and an APS-C EVIL (mirror-less) in 2012. No other details were given except that the source seemed to believe the full-frame model will likely use a Sony 24MP sensor.”
Pretty sure this is the same rumor that is currently being passed around like a cheap two-dollar... bill.
12-12-2011, 10:33 PM   #1908
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Pete Fang > $2

QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
Pretty sure this is the same rumor that is currently being passed around like a cheap two-dollar... bill.
Actually it's a $100 bill - but it's just the same $100 bill, photocopied a couple times.

.
12-12-2011, 11:18 PM   #1909
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Pentax has probably had a FF development program for years. It is just a matter of waiting for the right time to make a move.

If Pentax makes a FF I wonder if it will have SR. A larger K-5 body (similar controls and menus) would not be hard to put in production. The mirror/mirror box/shutter are the only mechanical parts that need to be redesigned.

12-12-2011, 11:58 PM   #1910
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
They can't compete with Canon 1Dx - NEVER. They can choose OLD STONE technology like STL or increase speed of readout of EVF, but they never
even be close to DSLR like Canon 1Dx or new Nikon D800/D*X.

Between Sony and Canon/Nikon technologies is the huge chasm
These statement shows you have no idea what the tech is. So you better calm dawn and keep silence. Forever.
Nothing is unbeatable. The whole technology is about to surpass old achievments. Especially nowdays where there signs of great advance in some areas, that will make SLRs dead. These are: increasing mobile CPUs power that will benefit cameras too, defocus estimation researches, advances in OLED technology that helps to produce high density screens.
And it's just laughable to think those monsters are unbeatable. They look more a death agony than a thing for a real usage. I bet the AF speed of mirrorless cams will exceed phase detection in 3 years speed-wise. And it's superior feature-wise already.

Last edited by Emacs; 12-13-2011 at 12:06 AM.
12-13-2011, 12:02 AM   #1911
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
These statement shows you have no idea what the tech is. So you better calm dawn and keep silence. Forever.
Nothing is unbeatable. The whole technology is about to surpass old achievments.
And it's just laughable to think those monsters are unbeatable. They look more a death agony than a thing for a real usage:
Kinda like emacs destroyed vi! (um, not.)

Seriously, though - if on-sensor PDAF gets mainstreamed and bug-free, or if CDAF gets fast, and if EVFs lose their lag and 'TV' look, and shot-shot lag in general is improved, and battery life eventually gets you more than 250 shots... mirrorless will be right there. Until all that happens, it's still a compromise I'm afraid, albeit an improving one.
12-13-2011, 12:32 AM   #1912
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
You can convince yourself of any thing - it's easy...But, no need to insist on it.

It's so naive and nice - to buy new toys and to praise new toys.
It's all about expirience. I have much better hit ratio with EVF than I ever had with tiny dark APS-C OVF. In fact, the sony oled viewfinder made MF usable for me. And they didn't even made it properly yet (I mean some firmware features that would improve it even more)
Combined with leica super elmar 18 it's much superior IQ-wise than everything APS-C SLR could do at the wide angle.
12-13-2011, 12:44 AM   #1913
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
It's all about expirience. I have much better hit ratio with EVF than I ever had with tiny dark APS-C OVF. In fact, the sony oled viewfinder made MF usable for me. And they didn't even made it properly yet (I mean some firmware features that would improve it even more)
Combined with leica super elmar 18 it's much superior IQ-wise than everything APS-C SLR could do at the wide angle.
It seems to me it's Pentax forums. BUT...There is the section for SONY here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/


Last edited by ogl; 12-13-2011 at 03:18 AM.
12-13-2011, 12:49 AM   #1914
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
And it's just laughable to think those monsters are unbeatable
OK. Show me NOW - who is the real fighter? We talks about camera of nowdays.

Or you talk with youself about non-existent cameras of future?

Are the limits of Russian Pentaclub very narrow? You decided to become famous in World Pentax forums as one of cleverest man with huge photo experience?
Let's try....

Last edited by ogl; 12-13-2011 at 03:17 AM.
12-13-2011, 12:50 AM   #1915
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Kinda like emacs destroyed vi! (um, not.)

Seriously, though - if on-sensor PDAF gets mainstreamed and bug-free, or if CDAF gets fast, and if EVFs lose their lag and 'TV' look, and shot-shot lag in general is improved, and battery life eventually gets you more than 250 shots... mirrorless will be right there. Until all that happens, it's still a compromise I'm afraid, albeit an improving one.
1) It won't be CDAF nor intergrated PDAF. The CDAF is hopeless, the PDAF too
2) The EVF will always be EVF, so TV looks will stay forever, it's unavoidable. I don't find this to be the disadvantage. At least, if you want to see how it looks in reality, just tear your eye from viewfinder The EVF only shows how it's seen by sensor.
3)The lag is not an issue already for general purpose.
12-13-2011, 12:53 AM   #1916
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
OK. Show me NOW - who is the real fighter? We talks about camera of nowdays.
With 1Dx or D4? Sony NEX-11
Keep talking about camera of nowdays
These are not in production
12-13-2011, 01:25 AM   #1917
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
and

but maybe his statements do have some fraction of truth - technologies do progress and it`s not really wise to decline this...

Last edited by masloff; 12-13-2011 at 07:37 AM.
12-13-2011, 03:00 AM   #1918
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QuoteOriginally posted by masloff Quote
but maybe his statements do have some fraction of truth - technologies do progress and it`s not really wise to decline this...
Of course...But 1 Dx is the result of progress too.

Last edited by ogl; 12-13-2011 at 03:14 AM.
12-13-2011, 03:15 AM   #1919
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OK everyone.
That is enough here.
Please have the decency to translate your thoughts to English to allow everyone to easily participate in the discussion, and desist from the personal attacks.
Thank you.
12-13-2011, 03:15 AM   #1920
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Kinda like emacs destroyed vi! (um, not.)

Seriously, though - if on-sensor PDAF gets mainstreamed and bug-free, or if CDAF gets fast, and if EVFs lose their lag and 'TV' look, and shot-shot lag in general is improved, and battery life eventually gets you more than 250 shots... mirrorless will be right there. Until all that happens, it's still a compromise I'm afraid, albeit an improving one.
Imagine, even IF all that would happen in our lifetime... Then all those features will generate an amount of heat that all the gained weight and size improvements would be used up on heat sinks or even active cooling. Draining battery-life even quicker.

ONLY 250 shots?!?! I go on trips where I don't see a powerplug for weeks. My two batteries are good enough to fill up my two 32gb SD cards. And then I still have spare juice left.

And don't let Emacs get to you. He must have extremely delicate features to value such small devices as highly as he does. I even preferred the big solid K20D feel over the K5; the K5's is so small that my hands often have trouble finding the small buttons. My K5 + DA40 pancake fits into my jacket's inside pocket. Going even smaller would classify such a camera as handbag-material, together with a mirror and lipstick.

There already is a wide range of products for people that want ultra-portability with the sacrifice of useability, IQ, ergonomics, battery-life and features. Those products are called point-and-shoots and even cellphonecameras.

The argument that technology will advance is only valid up untill a certain point. Eventually the amount of megapixels will be limited to the size of the sensor. You cannot pump unlimited pixels on the same sensor size. Eventually diffraction will limit this. After that, bigger will again equal better. And technology will not fix that, the diffraction is a property of light. So in that context: the only product with the future for the pro/prosumer-market here are the big "bulky" cameras.
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