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12-13-2011, 10:26 PM   #1951
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I was just wondering... I've read a few times that the K-5's shutter (which is less noisy than the one in the K-7) is less loud than that of the Leica. Who is right?
It's not the shutter that you are hearing, it's the mirror moving up and down.

Try taking a 3 second delay shot. You'll hear the mirror move up, then the shutter open and close.

The shutter may very well be quieter than a Leica.

12-14-2011, 02:44 AM   #1952
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QuoteQuote:
the K-5's shutter (which is less noisy than the one in the K-7)
QuoteQuote:
It's not the shutter that you are hearing, it's the mirror moving up and down.
Hmmmh, I would say that:
  1. IMHO, a K-5 and K-7 have almost identical shutter and mirror noise, ignoring sample variations
    AFAIK, the shutter/mirror assembly is the same with a minor tweak to the K-5 shutter to make the body shake a bit less.
  2. IMHO, the shutter is louder than the mirror which, in the K-5/7 body is extremely well dampened.
IMHO, many mirrorless (Leica included) are not (much) more silent than a K-5. The smaller mirrorless may be due to the smaller/lighter shutter though.
12-14-2011, 12:09 PM   #1953
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APS-H at #1

Well browsing around rumors I came across something that makes me look smart in this world:

7D Mark II
Absolutely zero information has come my way about a new 7D. What I donít think will happen is an APS-H 7D. They wonít eliminate the use of EF-S lenses on the body


But I'm definately not the only one in the world that would think that topping of an APS-C camera in image quality would be to go to the APS-H platform.
12-14-2011, 01:01 PM   #1954
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well browsing around rumors I came across something that makes me look smart in this world:

7D Mark II
Absolutely zero information has come my way about a new 7D. What I donít think will happen is an APS-H 7D. They wonít eliminate the use of EF-S lenses on the body


But I'm definately not the only one in the world that would think that topping of an APS-C camera in image quality would be to go to the APS-H platform.
I agree. I think APS-H is a good option. My dream camera is a 4/3 format with a 550mm^2 sensor. If you change the aspect ratio then the difference in sensor size is not as important. I still print at 8x10 and 11x14 which means very little crop with my Contax 645 (4/3), but with my 5D or K-7 I end up chopping 20% of the image to print. Any size advantage is lost for print work, and it screws with my composition.

12-14-2011, 02:59 PM   #1955
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
After seeing your comment, I retrieved and read the CIPA standard. It may not measure what you assume. A CIPA shot comprises:
- the shot
- a motor zoom operation (if the lens is powered)
- a 50% flash (every second shot must be flash at full force)
- 30s idle time

So, a camera w/o flash has a huge advantage here. Moreover, the speed by which the camera switches the display off during the idle time has a major impact (factory settings must be used).

A K-5 with no flash and taking bursts of shots will outperform CIPA by a large margin.

The K-5's 740 shots correspond to 370 min or 6h of continous operation! In practise, a K-5 easily does 2000 shots on a single charge. The time needed to compose an image by looking thru the VF is not specified by CIPA (read zero). But I guess, it is this composition time which draws most current per shot for a mirrorless camera.

Therefore, I consider the CIPA battery life to be a bad indicator for battery life comparison between an optical and electrinic VF camera. Another thing learned
I just wonder where the other poster got that information that mirrorless are only capable of shooting 250 images per charge. and I find it extremely difficult to believe such statement since I own one which can double that amount. it maybe questionably with a certain camera, but should not apply to all mirrorless in general. I think this is also rely on particular usage with the camera which could impact the battery life and compromise the number of shots. I'm sure the K-5 and K-7 are more capable of shooting more images and I'm not debating this because aside from the fact that it uses OVF, it has also a much bigger battery capacity. I just have an issue believing someone claiming that a mirrorless is only able to produce 250 shots per charge.
12-14-2011, 03:54 PM   #1956
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I'm pretty sure they were claiming a particular model (that some think is the be all end all of all things photographic) only gets 250 shots.
12-14-2011, 10:26 PM   #1957
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
After seeing your comment, I retrieved and read the CIPA standard. It may not measure what you assume. A CIPA shot comprises:
- the shot
- a motor zoom operation (if the lens is powered)
- a 50% flash (every second shot must be flash at full force)
- 30s idle time

So, a camera w/o flash has a huge advantage here. Moreover, the speed by which the camera switches the display off during the idle time has a major impact (factory settings must be used).

A K-5 with no flash and taking bursts of shots will outperform CIPA by a large margin.

The K-5's 740 shots correspond to 370 min or 6h of continous operation! In practise, a K-5 easily does 2000 shots on a single charge. The time needed to compose an image by looking thru the VF is not specified by CIPA (read zero). But I guess, it is this composition time which draws most current per shot for a mirrorless camera.

Therefore, I consider the CIPA battery life to be a bad indicator for battery life comparison between an optical and electrinic VF camera. Another thing learned
There is always something to say about any standard, i can understand they use 50% flash and when i think about it the 30s idle isn't that bad either.
It really depends on your shooting style and the type of photography but when i'm on a hike or walking around i probably average about 1 frame each 30 seconds, i don't use flah though.
So CIPA standard is a worse case scenario, it's very hard to creat a standard for average use because everyone use their camera differently so i can live with it.

I agree it isn't EVF friendly but does show OVF wins when it comes to energy effiency but we already knew that.
By how much depends on your shooting style so that is hard to test.
12-14-2011, 10:28 PM   #1958
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I just wonder where the other poster got that information that mirrorless are only capable of shooting 250 images per charge. and I find it extremely difficult to believe such statement since I own one which can double that amount. it maybe questionably with a certain camera, but should not apply to all mirrorless in general. I think this is also rely on particular usage with the camera which could impact the battery life and compromise the number of shots. I'm sure the K-5 and K-7 are more capable of shooting more images and I'm not debating this because aside from the fact that it uses OVF, it has also a much bigger battery capacity. I just have an issue believing someone claiming that a mirrorless is only able to produce 250 shots per charge.
Compact camera maybe?

12-15-2011, 12:42 AM   #1959
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
I just wonder where the other poster got that information that mirrorless are only capable of shooting 250 images per charge
I didn't supply that data, but that is how many shots I get out of my NEX-5, without using any flash. For a 1080 mAh (7.7Wh) battery, that's pretty poor. I think the numbers on the review sites for other mirrorless pretty much bear this out.

By way of comparison the K-5 battery is 1860 mAh (14 Wh), and it just seems to go on forever.
12-15-2011, 09:50 AM   #1960
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I didn't supply that data, but that is how many shots I get out of my NEX-5, without using any flash. I think the numbers on the review sites for other mirrorless pretty much bear this out.
I don't have the NEX-5. but it would be fair to ask NEX-5n owners on what their experiences are. the numbers on the review sites that you may be referring to are much more or less speculative. I do however got 2 NX cameras which could shoot more that what is being speculated with mirrorless cameras battery life in general.


QuoteQuote:
For a 1080 mAh (7.7Wh) battery, that's pretty poor.
that is poor in comparison with other mirrorless.



QuoteQuote:
By way of comparison the K-5 battery is 1860 mAh (14 Wh), and it just seems to go on forever.

forever? try using a film slr with only a small button cell battery.
12-16-2011, 01:08 AM   #1961
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Ladies and Gentleman, the shark has officially been jumped.

Jason
12-16-2011, 04:10 AM   #1962
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I don't know about the NEX-5n but a friend of mine who has the NEX-5 curses at its battery life compared to his Nikon DSLR's. One battery lasts for 3-4 hours of shooting while out and about.
12-16-2011, 06:09 AM   #1963
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
One battery lasts for 3-4 hours of shooting while out and about.
That's exactly my experience with the NEX-5, using genuine Sony batteries. The NEX-5N has only slightly improved on that, I believe.
12-16-2011, 06:21 AM   #1964
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Ladies and Gentleman, the shark has officially been jumped.

Jason
Did you get a photo of the event?
12-16-2011, 06:28 AM   #1965
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Did you get a photo of the event?
If he didn't it didn't happen. no photo then it's just a fantasy
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