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01-11-2012, 07:02 AM   #2071
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QuoteOriginally posted by markku55 Quote
What do you think about this professionals opinnion:
DSLRs are a dying breed – 3rd Gen Cameras are the Future
On several occasions here in the forum, I've outlined criteria when mirrorless systems become technically equivalent to dSLRs. This is very likely about 10 years down the road.

Just as an exercise, try to frame a bird in flight with an A77 and a long focal length ... Or try to focus on a person standing in front of a midsummer fire (or just even see it in the VF) ...

But I said it also ... APSC dSLR will disappear soon to be replaced by mirrorless. Because people requiring the best technology will require FF too.

01-11-2012, 07:16 AM   #2072
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QuoteOriginally posted by v5planet Quote
You know, the natural progression with that is that the chubby girls grow up to be the hot girls
In some cases

QuoteQuote:
..and the prom queens go the other way. Does this have implications for full frame? ;-)
Yes. But it has implications for everything, including the chubby girls who had a window of hotness.

Everything tied to technology is always on it's way out, question is timeline, and there are always folks overenthusiastic about timelines.

(Also, I'm convinced we'll see at least one affordable FF mirrorless camera in 2012, Sony is chomping at the bit to release one, Fuji reportedly is thinking of a release also.)

Meantime, as excited as I am about the new Fuji X, I have to admit it's not going to be a perfect camera, will not be for everyone, and doesn't even top the K-5 in a lot of areas, besides physical depth and some of the advantages that may come with the hybrid OVF. The lenses are a plus (smaller fast wides) and a drawback (only three right now.) The worried rumours in Fujiland are that the CDAF will be slow...

PS: I'm ending the sorta-sexist analogy continuation
.

Last edited by jsherman999; 01-11-2012 at 07:22 AM.
01-11-2012, 07:20 AM   #2073
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
On another thread it came up that this is the 60th anniversary of the Pentax SLR. The LX has seen several Special Editions over the years (, LX2000, LX gold....)
I can see the FF launch being an LX-D with a big chunk of bragging about the history of the SLR and Pentax's involvement
If I was planning something big for this year that's the route i would take
What are you dreaming of, a LX-D with a removable prism so that the old-school prism can be changed in a LCD viewfinder and vice versa?
01-11-2012, 07:30 AM   #2074
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
What are you dreaming of, a LX-D with a removable prism so that the old-school prism can be changed in a LCD viewfinder and vice versa?
that would be nice. the interchangeable finders are a really nice feature (I have 3 different ones for my 645) makes changing a focus screen easier as well (personally i don't want to see EVF on this model) - it would also be a unique feature in the DSLR world
It would be a unique product in the FF arena that references the past (like X100 and xpro1) while staying within an arena Pentax is known for (as opposed to RF where there is no history - for Fuji there is a long History)

If it doesn't tie directly to what made the LX so fantastic it would fail (so mirrorless is not what this one should be) A modernized LX that has all the manual controls laid out nicely with the back panel and dual wheels of the K7/5 would be more than fine by me (and numerous others I think. Oly started this retro thing pretty well. The Q and the Fujis play on the same thing. for that matter so does the 645 which in many ways mirrors the AF 645 models

01-11-2012, 07:35 AM   #2075
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
that would be nice. the interchangeable finders are a really nice feature (I have 3 different ones for my 645) makes changing a focus screen easier as well (personally i don't want to see EVF on this model) - it would also be a unique feature in the DSLR world
Ehhh... a 645 with removable finders? I guess you got your facts wrong

QuoteQuote:
If it doesn't tie directly to what made the LX so fantastic it would fail (so mirrorless is not what this one should be) A modernized LX that has all the manual controls laid out nicely with the back panel and dual wheels of the K7/5 would be more than fine by me (and numerous others I think. Oly started this retro thing pretty well. The Q and the Fujis play on the same thing. for that matter so does the 645 which in many ways mirrors the AF 645 models
The LX was a fantastic camera indeed (I had one also) but it didn't sell (in the long standing Pentax tradition). So there you were, at that time, with superb A* lenses but absolutely no LX-level body on which the "A" setting could be used...

Frankly, I'm not sure if a LX-D could sell well enough.
01-11-2012, 08:02 AM   #2076
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Ehhh... a 645 with removable finders? I guess you got your facts wrong



The LX was a fantastic camera indeed (I had one also) but it didn't sell (in the long standing Pentax tradition). So there you were, at that time, with superb A* lenses but absolutely no LX-level body on which the "A" setting could be used...

Frankly, I'm not sure if a LX-D could sell well enough.
eh no I don't I shoot with a Bronica ETRSI in 645 and have a WL a Prism and an Angle Prism finder and 3 backs. I went this route because Pana didn't have the swappable backs.

as for whether it would sell it's about doing a good modern reference on a historical body (hell the Mx would be good so would the SV - the SV actually makes a lot of sense from a historical perspective
01-11-2012, 08:32 AM   #2077
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
On several occasions here in the forum, I've outlined criteria when mirrorless systems become technically equivalent to dSLRs. This is very likely about 10 years down the road.

Just as an exercise, try to frame a bird in flight with an A77 and a long focal length ... Or try to focus on a person standing in front of a midsummer fire (or just even see it in the VF) ...

But I said it also ... APSC dSLR will disappear soon to be replaced by mirrorless. Because people requiring the best technology will require FF too.
I'm not so sure about the last statement. APS-C still has its virtues! To take your own example: Try to frame a bird in flight - you may prefer an APS-C DSLR because of lighter weight and more reach with shorter telephoto lenses. Especially if you're e.g. on a trek in the wilderness with strict weight limitations.
01-11-2012, 09:14 AM   #2078
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
What are you dreaming of, a LX-D with a removable prism so that the old-school prism can be changed in a LCD viewfinder and vice versa?
Hmmm, interesting. What about a pellicle mirror that can flip, and an interchangeable finder so the user can decide whether to use EVF or OVF technology? I like this idea of an LX-D, but it seems like it would be hard to seal against the weather.

01-11-2012, 09:20 AM   #2079
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
Hmmm, interesting. What about a pellicle mirror that can flip, and an interchangeable finder so the user can decide whether to use EVF or OVF technology? I like this idea of an LX-D, but it seems like it would be hard to seal against the weather.
Even the LX, at that time, was sealed (!). It should not be harder than sealing a SD card door or the grip contacts. But the idea is certainly interesting.

However, what I think will really happen: a dual viewfinder in one, an old-school ground glass screen with a LCD overlay. The LCD overlay can be used in LV mode (to display the whole picture directly from the sensor) or to project additional info on the ground glass screen (such as a histogram or focus points). Now THAT would be interesting. Change from Optical View to Live View without taking your eye from the finder.
01-11-2012, 09:27 AM   #2080
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
But I said it also ... APSC dSLR will disappear soon to be replaced by mirrorless. Because people requiring the best technology will require FF too.
Highly unlikely. The quickness with which digital swept away film has, I suspect, made some people overly-eager to predict the demise of the next format. It would not, however, be in the interest of camera companies to abandon their APS-C customers merely to chase after the latest technological fad. Once a consumer has invested in a company's lenses, they will be much less likely to take their business elsewhere. In a sense they're locked in as long as their lenses continue to be supported. Now it's unlikely that the majority of consumers are going to want to use APS-C lenses in crop mode on FF or via awkward and expensive adapters on mirrorless. If a camera company forces them to use APS-C DSLR lenses on cameras not designed for those lenses, that company is simply providing their customers with a convenient excuse (and the motivation) to take their business elsewhere.
01-11-2012, 10:03 AM   #2081
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Even the LX, at that time, was sealed (!). It should not be harder than sealing a SD card door or the grip contacts. But the idea is certainly interesting.

However, what I think will really happen: a dual viewfinder in one, an old-school ground glass screen with a LCD overlay. The LCD overlay can be used in LV mode (to display the whole picture directly from the sensor) or to project additional info on the ground glass screen (such as a histogram or focus points). Now THAT would be interesting. Change from Optical View to Live View without taking your eye from the finder.
That's a great idea! Better get a patent
01-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #2082
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QuoteOriginally posted by borno Quote
That's a great idea! Better get a patent
it's really not that far from the Fuji Idea, just applied to a prism camera
Implementation may be difficult but i like the idea too (And being able to change finder type would be really nice
01-11-2012, 10:18 AM   #2083
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QuoteOriginally posted by borno Quote
That's a great idea! Better get a patent
If I remember correctly Pentax is already holder of one or more of such "hybrid viewfinder" patents: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/159688-what-happen...iewfinder.html
01-11-2012, 10:31 AM   #2084
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Now it's unlikely that the majority of consumers are going to want to use APS-C lenses in crop mode on FF or via awkward and expensive adapters on mirrorless. If a camera company forces them to use APS-C DSLR lenses on cameras not designed for those lenses, that company is simply providing their customers with a convenient excuse (and the motivation) to take their business elsewhere.
All they have to do is provide a high quality 1.5x teleconverter and all APS-C lenses can be used on the FF camera with the same angle of view as on APS-C without cropping. (The loss of speed is compensated for by the bigger sensor.) Possibly the slowest lenses would have trouble with AF, but at least all the expensive ones would work fine.
01-11-2012, 10:37 AM - 1 Like   #2085
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that's not how it works a TC won't give a bigger image circle than the original lens has.
your letting the inane crop factor explanation influence your thinking
the trick is the Nikon one. have an auto mask for the apsc lenses so they are still functional for people moving up.
That is what I would expect. It would be nice if you could disable it or re size it to say apsh since many of the DA lenses are usable on FF (but not all)
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