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10-20-2011, 07:35 AM   #196
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I would 100% buy a FF Pentax.

10-20-2011, 07:53 AM   #197
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Wow, this is my second bit of very good Pentax news. First the reaction to Ron Hendriks Poll on which lenses to put R&D resources in. And now this!

My boss (Ricoh) is having a very good influence on my new Pentax colleagues. They seem to be fearing and/or fearing Ricoh's whip!
10-20-2011, 07:55 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Very well? Has it made any sort of dent in D3 sales? Or been a game changer?
It has won numerous awards and I am not discounting the fact that it is a great camera, but I consider it a niche product with very small application.
it's not the same market as the D3, medium format was never the same market as 35mm either. and yep it dominates the MF market in sales
you can't look at that camera from the perspective most users on the forum. It's a tool for specific markets (as are the Hassy and Phase/Mamiyas) not out to compete with the D3 or the 1dx/s
from a medium format market standpoint yep it was a game changer.
10-20-2011, 07:58 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
They seem to be fearing and/or fearing Ricoh's whip!
More likely, they will have access to increased resources to produce glass like in the FA* glory days.

10-20-2011, 08:16 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
it's not the same market as the D3, medium format was never the same market as 35mm either. and yep it dominates the MF market in sales
you can't look at that camera from the perspective most users on the forum. It's a tool for specific markets (as are the Hassy and Phase/Mamiyas) not out to compete with the D3 or the 1dx/s
from a medium format market standpoint yep it was a game changer.
I wouldn't be so assertive, when transitionning from Film to Digital, many photographers moved from MF to 35mm/APSC for budget reasons.
I can definitively see someone moving from a 5DmkII/Alpha850/D3X to a Pentax 645D for the added pixels and rendition.

When comparing systems, high-end 35mm tend to get relatively close to Pentax MF in term of prices.

Canon & Nikon bodies have been used for fashion, product, landscape etc... where MF was used during the film era. The Pentax 645D is gaining back that market (more a part of)

But the market for D3s/1Dx is vey different, its core market is photojournalists, especially sport photographers. Model refresh comes 6 months to 1 year before major sport evens. In such market, autofocus speed and accuracy, iso performance and frame rate are extremely critical. Pixel count much less so.

I believe the reason Canon cancel the dual model low pixel count / high pixel count strategy is because this later market is now addressed by MF (and Pentax)

My 2 cents.

Now back to Pentax FF, if pentax was to (likely) adopt the rumored 36Mpx Sony sensor to make their camera, they would have to beef up before the 645D to avoid canibalisation of sales.
So I would count on a 645D mk II with full 6x4.5 sensor, 60 or 80Mpx before any release of Pentax 35mm.
In any case, Pentax has to seriouly beef up processing power and auto focus systems before releasing any of the 2 cameras.

Maybe Ricoh is willing to pour the money in such a project, but they will need also engineering ressources that comes with it.
10-20-2011, 08:22 AM   #201
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I don't see any news about Pentax FF. Show me, please.
10-20-2011, 08:24 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't see any news about Pentax FF. Show me, please.
We're all waiting for that news.Hope this is not an "October Fool" thing
10-20-2011, 08:53 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Now back to Pentax FF, if pentax was to (likely) adopt the rumored 36Mpx Sony sensor to make their camera, they would have to beef up before the 645D to avoid canibalisation of sales.
So I would count on a 645D mk II with full 6x4.5 sensor, 60 or 80Mpx before any release of Pentax 35mm.
In any case, Pentax has to seriouly beef up processing power and auto focus systems before releasing any of the 2 cameras.
I would also totally buy an FF 35mm pentax. And i would totally buy a fullframe 6x4.5 645D... after saving for ten years.
The crop 645D is already 10k, and almost FF backs for other medium format camera fetch in the 30k, i'd be surprised to see pentax come out with an affordable solution.

10-20-2011, 08:57 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't see any news about Pentax FF. Show me, please.
I think it's more of a 'positive reception' thing, a responsiveness, with some intentionally hopeful verbage that has us excited.

I actually highly doubt Ricoh would publicly announce a FF initiative right now, out of the blue, simply as a reaction to that letter.

It's more of a 'we are listening, stay tuned' kinda thing. I expect any significant announcement wouldn't happen until photokina 2012, but I could be wrong.

.
10-20-2011, 09:03 AM   #205
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I wonder if Ricoh does anticipate on a shake-up of the market and the possibility of going out of bussiness from Kodak and Olympus.

That would make things different in future:

Marketshare total market digital camera's in 2010:


I wonder how 2011 is looking?
10-20-2011, 09:12 AM   #206
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i'd be more interested to see a chart that is just ILC and doesn't include p/s since it's the market Ricoh seems to have bought Pentax for (and I would guess most of Pentax' 1.5% comes from ILC not P/S since the P/S is pretty miserable for the most part and has even worse distribution than ILC does (at least where I am)
10-20-2011, 09:42 AM - 1 Like   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
I would also totally buy an FF 35mm pentax. And i would totally buy a fullframe 6x4.5 645D... after saving for ten years.
The crop 645D is already 10k, and almost FF backs for other medium format camera fetch in the 30k, i'd be surprised to see pentax come out with an affordable solution.
Pentax 645D = 10 000$
Canon 1Dx = 6 800$

Both are not "cheap" products. Now if you're annual budget for photography is 1000$, then you are not the target for digital 35mm.

Older second hand body may come to that price at some point, but glass ain't cheap. No scorn in my comment, but FF is a "rich" product, if Pentax release a body next year it won't be at 999$ with additional 500$ for a decent 28-70mm/f4.

I don't have a FF, I don't plan to have a FF or Pentax 645D although I desire it and I can somehow afford it. It is just that I don't practice as much as i would like with my existing cameras and I treasure more compacity than pixel count (although I use a Pentax 67 for street shooting, everydoby has their contradictions)

Asking Pentax to release a FF camera, while not considering first how it would bring value to your own photography is IMO hardware nerdism.

I was making a coment about making a FF camera as business strategy, the 645D is currently a big success, and Pentax made the effort of re-releasing their whole glass range, and develop new lenses.
Releasing a 36Mpx FF camera may harm this product line in term of sales. So Pentax has to move up the 645D system before releasing their FF, to make sure both address different markets and users of the 645D would not be tempted to move to a much cheaper product.

My comment was not directed at me or you buying the 645D.
10-20-2011, 09:48 AM   #208
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IMHO it would make sense for Pentax-Ricoh for a number of reasons :

a) Current K5 users have a natural upgrade path and there are already many lenses, both current and legacy, that suit the system, though naturally more would need to be announced (another plus for us) ! Retaining these users is important because these are the guys that spend on top quality lenses.
b) The cost of producing a FF camera based on the K5 would not be prohibitive.
c) Sony have shown that there is a market for a new FF marque with the a900 and next year will release two more FF cameras.
d) Very very few Pentaxians will move onto a 645D for a variety of reasons, cost ($3/4,000 to $10,000 is a helluva jump) and lack of flexibility/portability being just two.

The other notable positive aspect of Ricoh is that I have noticed, unlike Pentax, they are not in the slightest averse to aggressive marketing - at least hear in Asia, I'm not sure what it's like in the West.

I'm quite excited at what the future holds for Pentax & the K mount.
10-20-2011, 10:16 AM   #209
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Great effort, Adam. I applaud you.

However, I have to point out that decisions are made and un-made. Priorities are set and unset. Times change and so are markets and technical considerations as well. Therefore until there is actual announcement of actual camera, all we can do is effectively speculate with different degree of certainty. Again, I am not trying to be negative about your effort, Adam. I am just thinking that the general calming down may be in order.
10-20-2011, 10:31 AM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
i'd be more interested to see a chart that is just ILC and doesn't include p/s since it's the market Ricoh seems to have bought Pentax for (and I would guess most of Pentax' 1.5% comes from ILC not P/S since the P/S is pretty miserable for the most part and has even worse distribution than ILC does (at least where I am)
I guess that Pentax still sells 1.2 - 1.5 miljion P&S camera's, so there is some market. Not that it is that important, but for the shockproof camera's the Olympus marketshare is interesting for both Pentax and Ricoh.
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