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01-21-2012, 08:41 AM   #2266
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote

Sony tried on price and almost no one from Canon or Nikon left those camps because of the price difference. It was too small. It made no impact on sales.

Why would Pentax be different?
Sony, circa 2008: Not a name that brings enthusiasm at the camera store counter, or while browsing B&H. No Live view, so-so reviews on high-ISO image quality and AF performance. Body price is good, but not followed up by good prices on new lenses, not to mention lack of a variety of new lenses. Sony's Big Mistake.

But really, the name is a huge factor. As someone pointed out, buying a camera is a feel-good thing 90% of the time, a pragmatic thing maybe 10% of the time. If the name had been Minolta, had there been a nice array of less expensive lenses, live view, a few more enthusiastic reviews... The Minolta A900 would have been a much bigger success, IMO.

When I walked into a camera store in 2007, I was going to but Canon or Nikon. I got the chance to handle a Pentax - I bought it. I wouldn't have considered Sony based on the name alone, not because I hated Sony, but because I didn't trust the name in this area, didn't associate it with a photography company.

QuoteQuote:
Are there enough Pentax loyalists alone to satisfy the demand for an FF system required to sell well over 100k-200k bodies per year at over $2,000?
No, but I'm curious, how do you come up with the 100-200 thousand bodies per year requirement? At any rate, it should be clear by now that we're not talking about a static, captive market of "Pentax loyalists alone", we're talking about an upgrade stream from any m43/mirrorless body (or Olympus + Pentax apsc DSLR) over the next several years, in existing and emerging markets. I think Ricoh is eyeing that greedily, as is everyone else.

One of the bottom lines here is this: If Ricoh wants to stay in K-mount - selling K-mount lenses - they will have a very hard time doing so if they stay in aps-c DSLR only, because it's going to get pinched in a big way (on the lower end especially) by mirrorless. In a few years, FF premiums will have shrunk and margin-friendly FF bodies can be sold at around $1700 or so. If Pentax waits until it's really easy to enter that tier, they may find themselves behind - again. They could be followed in there by a bunch of mirrorless players, for example.

A FF body and multi-year lens strategy taking form now positions them to be very strong in a couple years, more established in the tier, hopefully with several years of good reviews behind them and with a fleshed out lens lineup - a lineup that sells both in aps-c and FF. In other words, they have to be playing several moves ahead here if they want to succeed vs just barely survive. Being reactive and cautious is really just more of the same strategy that got them into this anemic position they're in now.

They have so much more potential than that.


.


Last edited by jsherman999; 01-21-2012 at 09:02 AM.
01-21-2012, 08:46 AM   #2267
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QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
People who buys the FF will for sure buy more lenses. That way they wont need to sell as many FF cameras as APS-C. I don't think anyone who buys the FF will be satisfied with just a kit lens. And they can probably push the price down on the body and make money in the long term, maybe with a higher priced second FF body.


I agree with falk, canon is not the biggest competitor for a Pentax FF. The 5D mark 3 will probably have high pixel count aimed at studio work (slower af and so on).

I'd worry about Nikon D800 and Sony. If Nikon puts a 35mp sensor in the D800, who will buy a much higher priced and bigger D4? Both will probably be speed monsters with similar specs?
Many here are saying that they will slap on old FF compatible lenses, but I tend to agree with you. Having said that, more than one Pentax have said in multiple interview that majority of those who buy dslr will buy no more than 2 lenses.
01-21-2012, 08:50 AM   #2268
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Many here are saying that they will slap on old FF compatible lenses, but I tend to agree with you. Having said that, more than one Pentax have said in multiple interview that majority of those who buy dslr will buy no more than 2 lenses.
And they also wont frequent our forums.
01-21-2012, 08:52 AM   #2269
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
And they also wont frequent our forums.
Therefore catering to the type of crowd that frequent here would not be such a smart move for Pentax, no?

01-21-2012, 09:00 AM   #2270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Therefore catering to the type of crowd that frequent here would not be such a smart move for Pentax, no?
Prolly not. Just sayin'

But the people that frequent here are likely to buy more lenses, so in our own way, we are the Pentax cash cow.
01-21-2012, 09:00 AM   #2271
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here is something to lighten up the mood ------ >>>>> User review for Pentax 645D by chanpion01: Digital Photography Review

01-21-2012, 09:03 AM   #2272
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
here is something to lighten up the mood ------ >>>>> User review for Pentax 645D by chanpion01: Digital Photography Review

QuoteOriginally posted by dpreview:
User review for Pentax 645D by chanpion01: Digital Photography Review
ridiculous to have a camera with this megapixel size
By: chanpion01 posted on Jan 13, 2012 UTC
Opinion: It is outrageous to have a megapixel camera this big when you compare it to a a65 which has 24mp and the a65 pic is better/more clearer. this is a terrible camera and suggest don't buy it. i wasted $9000. and I'm a pro photographer. I'm 14 and had a nikon d2s, lumix fs7, this and getting a nex-3 cause this was so shit

Problems: everything
WOW! I wanna be that 14 year old... well... maybe not.
01-21-2012, 09:06 AM   #2273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
WOW! I wanna be that 14 year old... well... maybe not.

he is not only a 14 year old. he is a professional 14 year old with a $9,000 camera who instead loves and prefers shooting with a P&S.

01-21-2012, 09:08 AM   #2274
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
here is something to lighten up the mood ------ >>>>> User review for Pentax 645D by chanpion01: Digital Photography Review

How funny. When I first took it out of the box I did nearly crapped in my pants because it was so damn big. But, it will feel smaller and smaller the more you use it . . .
01-21-2012, 09:10 AM   #2275
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
And they also wont frequent our forums.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Therefore catering to the type of crowd that frequent here would not be such a smart move for Pentax, no?
They used to. Considering the "passion" that sometimes develops here, I can only presume that they made a decision to no longer support the forum.


https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/gatherings-photo-trips-groups/67501-penta...-tour-u-s.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/61576-k-7-grandfather-mountain.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/61649-there-will-no-k30.html
01-21-2012, 09:16 AM   #2276
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote

Sony tried on price and almost no one from Canon or Nikon left those camps because of the price difference. It was too small. It made no impact on sales.

Why would Pentax be different?

the A900's price wasn't sound and it was a relatively unknown camera brand during that time. it's price to performance ratio wasn't worth it or it's too expensive for a camera that has less to offer overall compared to the competition. limited lens selection. the A850 is very affordable, also very crippled for a FF camera.

I agree with most have pointed out here that any plans for a Pentax FF should be carefully made inorder to avoid such error made by Sony. in fact, Sony is still doing some stupid errors (like the SLT concept). the only things that they made right so far is manufacturing great sensors and the new NEX cameras.
01-21-2012, 09:42 AM   #2277
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveM Quote
They used to. Considering the "passion" that sometimes develops here, I can only presume that they made a decision to no longer support the forum.
Maybe it's a surplus of trolls.
01-21-2012, 11:38 AM   #2278
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
B]One of the bottom lines here is this[/B]: If Ricoh wants to stay in K-mount - selling K-mount lenses - they will have a very hard time doing so if they stay in aps-c DSLR only, because it's going to get pinched in a big way (on the lower end especially) by mirrorless. In a few years, FF premiums will have shrunk and margin-friendly FF bodies can be sold at around $1700 or so. If Pentax waits until it's really easy to enter that tier, they may find themselves behind - again. They could be followed in there by a bunch of mirrorless players, for example.
I think you are basically correct as long as Canon and Nikon aren't the only players in the FF market. For the price to come down on FF bodies there needs to be a couple of other manufacturers making FF bodies. I haven't seen the price on the upcoming Canon FF, but apparently the D800 is going to be approximately $3500 which is a $1000 increase over the current price of the D700. I'm not real happy about the 36 megapixel sensor so I'm kind of sitting on the fence on that one. Right now there doesn't seem to be a lot downward price movement on FF bodies. I'm not counting Leica for obvious reasons and Sony just to me seems kind of clueless on cameras. I had a chance to use a NEX 7 a friend got overseas. It's a really interesting camera. More like a computer as Steve Huff wrote. It's not really my style but it's a really rocking camera. I wouldn't even remotely consider it because of the lenses. If they had release a 28mm equivalent and 85mm equivalent of equal quality to the 24mm F1.8 then I probably would have considered it. I'm soon to be Pentax less for the first time in 10 years (unless a GXR counts). I hope they do make a Full Frame and are very successful. I really respect the brand and have enjoyed using it the last 10+ years, but having to choose one DSLR, I decided to go with Nikon. Once you invest in the lenses it's kind of pointless to switch and I now have a significant invest in Nikon lenses. Right now Nikon has better lenses for me, but I'm sure for other people Pentax has better ones.
01-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #2279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Actually, they have been sucessful. The K-r has sold briskly and the company is making money.
With cheaper products I mean high quality digital compacts or bridge cameras, not DSLR cameras.
01-21-2012, 04:59 PM   #2280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
. Having said that, more than one Pentax have said in multiple interview that majority of those who buy dslr will buy no more than 2 lenses.
The thing weighting that stat is the amount of folks just buying the two kits lens when they get an entry-level DSLR. FF buyers tend to buy more (and more expensive) lenses over time, an upgrade market Pentax has just handed over to CaNikon for the past six years.

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