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02-16-2012, 10:57 PM   #2551
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Second best to FF is m4/3?!? That's some weird logic you've got there.
No, it's not, because I still have the Minolta lenses for FF and an A700 body with which I can use them for APS-C pictures.
The m4/3 will be an every day camera and Sony will be used only when the better picture quality is really needed.

If the new Olympus EM5 is as good as they promise, especially conserning the AF, image stabilation and video, that would be huge improvement compared to those cameras I already have

I also believe that the picture quality depends highly on the size of the sensor, means that the difference between m4/3 an APS-C is actually smaller than the difference between APS-C and FF.

And as they say, the best camera is that one you have with you when you need a picture

02-16-2012, 11:36 PM   #2552
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Well to a point I agree, but I'd rather lug my K-5 around as much as possible and only use my Cellphone 8mp camera if I have to!.. even though it does better video than my K-5..
02-17-2012, 02:00 AM   #2553
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QuoteOriginally posted by markku55 Quote
The m4/3 will be an every day camera and Sony will be used only when the better picture quality is really needed.
...But best picture quality is always needed.


QuoteOriginally posted by markku55 Quote
I also believe that the picture quality depends highly on the size of the sensor, means that the difference between m4/3 an APS-C is actually smaller than the difference between APS-C and FF.
But the lower IQ of m4/3 cameras can be clearly seen by the naked eye. If you're gonna lug around a device all the time, as an every-day-camera, and you're ok with the tiny sensor... Then you can just as wel use your cellphone.


QuoteOriginally posted by markku55 Quote
And as they say, the best camera is that one you have with you when you need a picture
In my case, that would be the K5. Come on, admit it: the K5 is tiny. It's the smallest fully featured DSLR. It slips in my jacket pocket easily.
02-17-2012, 02:18 AM   #2554
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
...But best picture quality is always needed.
It's a question what do you mean with best quality and with acceptable quality. If you mean best quality with the quality K5 can produce, then that is ok for you, but there is quite a step from APS-C to FF, and when you have the FF, then you start thinking of MF and...


QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
But the lower IQ of m4/3 cameras can be clearly seen by the naked eye. If you're gonna lug around a device all the time, as an every-day-camera, and you're ok with the tiny sensor... Then you can just as wel use your cellphone.
You have right if you think like you want, but a cellphone is not a system camera and can never replace one - I'm sure I must not explane you what are the differences between a high end m4/3 system camera and cellphone


QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
In my case, that would be the K5. Come on, admit it: the K5 is tiny. It's the smallest fully featured DSLR. It slips in my jacket pocket easily.
Yes, but still missing really fast AF, moveable display, not so good for video shooting etc, but for sure one of the best value for money today.

02-17-2012, 03:52 AM   #2555
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QuoteOriginally posted by markku55 Quote
You have right if you think like you want, but a cellphone is not a system camera and can never replace one - I'm sure I must not explane you what are the differences between a high end m4/3 system camera and cellphone.
Yes, the differences between a m4/3 camera and a cellphone are clear to me. The difference in IQ however, is not. That difference is so small, that -for me- it doesn't justify buying a totally new system. Especially not if the difference in mobility between my K5 and such a m4/3 doesn't even exist at all.

That's why I would love a pentax FF camera that's about K5+grip sized. That would be perfect. I could carry it permantly, like my K5.
02-17-2012, 03:53 AM   #2556
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All this techno-babble... where does it get us? Come down to earth.


The BBC recently screened a documentary-drama "We'll Take Manhattan" about how David Bailey and his model Jean Shrimpton, on a fashion shoot in New York for Vogue in 1962, turned the world of photography upside-down and raised the bar. Ordered to produce medium format images Bailey used instead a Pentax S3 with standard 55mm Auto-Tak and no gizmos. Just shows what can be achieved with the most basic tool imaginable - if you're a genuine photographer and know what you're doing.


The S3 happened to be my first SLR in 1963 when it was superseded by the better known SV which simply added a self-timer and auto-resetting film counter. I remember it as the nicest camera I used until the Contax Aria decades later and, more recently, the Pentax *istDS (even though I also have a K-7). Simple is beautiful, friends.


You can catch up with "We'll Take Manhattan" on BBC iPlayer. Be inspired.
02-17-2012, 04:29 AM   #2557
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
But the lower IQ of m4/3 cameras can be clearly seen by the naked eye. If you're gonna lug around a device all the time, as an every-day-camera, and you're ok with the tiny sensor... Then you can just as wel use your cellphone.
The superior IQ of the 645D is also clearly visible, IMHO even on small web-sized images. But you've got to draw a line somewhere and say "this is where the most functional compromise between image quality and gear bulk and cost is - for me".
02-17-2012, 04:33 AM   #2558
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
But this sounds like they have the idea already. And SLR isn't mirrorless. The sad point is that despite the idea, it also sounds they haven't really started a project yet. It all doesn't make sense, the D800 takes most of remaining potential customers now. And even if the idea is a small and esthetically pleasing FF body (what I would applaud), we know from the K-7/D7000 that it takes Nikon only a year to copy it.
I'm certain Pentax have constantly had a prototype of a FF camera the last ten years or so. They have said what direction they will go in; even better viewfinders (playing on the DSLR strenght) and even smaller body. So Pentax is working on miniaturization. We will see a small FF DSLR when the time is right.

02-17-2012, 04:38 AM   #2559
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S3 was a FF camera.
But seriously, pros used the *ist D to do their work, a mere 6Mp camera with OK performance up to about ISO 800.
Then again, FF cameras have the ability to expand on the lens' capabilities, amongst some other practical advantages.
02-17-2012, 04:39 AM   #2560
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QuoteOriginally posted by unfocused Quote
All this techno-babble... where does it get us? Come down to earth.


The BBC recently screened a documentary-drama "We'll Take Manhattan" about how David Bailey and his model Jean Shrimpton, on a fashion shoot in New York for Vogue in 1962, turned the world of photography upside-down and raised the bar. Ordered to produce medium format images Bailey used instead a Pentax S3 with standard 55mm Auto-Tak and no gizmos. Just shows what can be achieved with the most basic tool imaginable - if you're a genuine photographer and know what you're doing.


The S3 happened to be my first SLR in 1963 when it was superseded by the better known SV which simply added a self-timer and auto-resetting film counter. I remember it as the nicest camera I used until the Contax Aria decades later and, more recently, the Pentax *istDS (even though I also have a K-7). Simple is beautiful, friends.


You can catch up with "We'll Take Manhattan" on BBC iPlayer. Be inspired.
I love photography, but I love gadgets too. When I enter these forums I easily get caught up in all the gadget-talk. Even if it's about gear I can't even afford.

The best remedy is always to just go out and shoot something. Or -in my case- even inside. (mircrophotography in my tiny studio.)
02-17-2012, 04:45 AM - 1 Like   #2561
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I'm certain Pentax have constantly had a prototype of a FF camera the last ten years or so. They have said what direction they will go in; even better viewfinders (playing on the DSLR strenght) and even smaller body. So Pentax is working on miniaturization. We will see a small FF DSLR when the time is right.
The question is, do they really have to fulfill the wishes of those that want FF cameras now? I'm not so sure: They have a very good APS-C alternative, and they already cater to even more demanding customers with the 645D (and I wouldn't be surprised if they come out with both more expensive (645 FF) and less expensive - within reach of less rich amateurs - variants of that).

And when they introduce a Full Frame 24x36 camera - if what they come up with is sufficiently interesting, they will get brand new customers even if they lost some old pentaxians. Like they did with the MX when I was just a teenager

(I also noticed their comments on viewfinders - personally I'm hoping there will soon be a K-3 with a better-than-Sony version of Sony's 24mp sensor and even better viewfinder than the K-5. But I can wait, my K10D is still producing excellent pictures - and if it doesn't, it's a case of PEBCA (Problem Exists Behind CAmera) )
02-17-2012, 05:25 AM   #2562
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A Pentax FF with a hybrid viewfinder is something I can see on the horizon for Pentax. A nice, bright optical viewfinder by default, an EVF overlay in Live View mode and while filming. This is definitely "different". It's either this or a mirrorless FF Pentax is thinking about, because such a camera must have an unique selling point (and size is not an important selling point).
02-17-2012, 06:12 AM   #2563
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QuoteOriginally posted by unfocused Quote
All this techno-babble... where does it get us? Come down to earth.


The BBC recently screened a documentary-drama "We'll Take Manhattan" about how David Bailey and his model Jean Shrimpton, on a fashion shoot in New York for Vogue in 1962, turned the world of photography upside-down and raised the bar. Ordered to produce medium format images Bailey used instead a Pentax S3 with standard 55mm Auto-Tak and no gizmos. Just shows what can be achieved with the most basic tool imaginable - if you're a genuine photographer and know what you're doing.


The S3 happened to be my first SLR in 1963 when it was superseded by the better known SV which simply added a self-timer and auto-resetting film counter. I remember it as the nicest camera I used until the Contax Aria decades later and, more recently, the Pentax *istDS (even though I also have a K-7). Simple is beautiful, friends.


You can catch up with "We'll Take Manhattan" on BBC iPlayer. Be inspired.
Thanks for the heads up on that one. Sounds fascinating. A lot of people enjoy the gear as much as the photography. Nothing wrong with that. But there is a difference between photography and gear. Gear does not guarantee a good photograph artistically. But for some types of photography, sports or birding come to mind as two examples, yes you probably need the right gear. Dadio Moriyama for example wouldn't need a Phase One or a Nikon D800. It would probably just get in his way. Different strokes so to speak. I had a chance to shoot an M9 recently. I understand now why art photographers like them so much, but for a lot of people they would really be impractical. There is no one right answer.

The Pentax K5 is a really great camera. I'm not that crazy about MFT having used it for the last couple of years but some of the newer lenses are great.
02-17-2012, 06:58 AM   #2564
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF with a hybrid viewfinder is something I can see on the horizon for Pentax. A nice, bright optical viewfinder by default, an EVF overlay in Live View mode and while filming. This is definitely "different". It's either this or a mirrorless FF Pentax is thinking about, because such a camera must have an unique selling point (and size is not an important selling point).
I don't know about that; if they can get a full frame system, with shake reduction, in a body the size of the K-5, that's pretty impressive.
02-17-2012, 07:06 AM   #2565
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I don't know about that; if they can get a full frame system, with shake reduction, in a body the size of the K-5, that's pretty impressive.
Yes, indeed, but we have seen that size alone doesn't sell. Or the K-5 would have been been a better seller than the D7000
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