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02-17-2012, 08:12 AM   #2566
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I'm certain Pentax have constantly had a prototype of a FF camera the last ten years or so. They have said what direction they will go in; even better viewfinders (playing on the DSLR strenght) and even smaller body. So Pentax is working on miniaturization. We will see a small FF DSLR when the time is right.
When the price is right.

02-17-2012, 10:10 AM   #2567
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF with a hybrid viewfinder is something I can see on the horizon for Pentax. A nice, bright optical viewfinder by default, an EVF overlay in Live View mode and while filming. This is definitely "different". It's either this or a mirrorless FF Pentax is thinking about, because such a camera must have an unique selling point (and size is not an important selling point).
Yes yes and yes again.
02-17-2012, 10:17 AM   #2568
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I have to admit that what ever FF Pentax will do, I'm interested
If that do not happen soon, I'm not sure I will wait
02-19-2012, 02:07 PM   #2569
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Originally posted by markku55 The m4/3 will be an every day camera and Sony will be used only when the better picture quality is really needed. ...But best picture quality is always needed

In the "We'll Take Manhattan" film Vogue calls Bailey's FF 35mm Pentax S3 a 'tourist' camera and questions the reduction in quality (from medium format). Bailey replies: "There'll ne no reduction in quality, there'll be a change in quality." In his hands the 35mm format caused an earthquake in the IQ-obsessed fashion mag business.

The same can probably be said in the present-day argument between FF and APS-C.

02-19-2012, 03:40 PM   #2570
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF with a hybrid viewfinder is something I can see on the horizon for Pentax. A nice, bright optical viewfinder by default, an EVF overlay in Live View mode and while filming. This is definitely "different". It's either this or a mirrorless FF Pentax is thinking about, because such a camera must have an unique selling point (and size is not an important selling point).
Please, stop make us dream.
02-19-2012, 06:12 PM   #2571
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QuoteOriginally posted by unfocused Quote
In the "We'll Take Manhattan" film Vogue calls Bailey's FF 35mm Pentax S3 a 'tourist' camera and questions the reduction in quality (from medium format). Bailey replies: "There'll ne no reduction in quality, there'll be a change in quality." In his hands the 35mm format caused an earthquake in the IQ-obsessed fashion mag business.

The same can probably be said in the present-day argument between FF and APS-C.
interesting perspective considering that magazine print quality was soo much worse than photo quality off 35mm, making medium format redundant except for as a means of protecting industry elitists from competition... then as magazine print quality improved, 35 mm gained traction and image quality as well, eventually some 35 mm lenses were out resolving medium format...

eventually we'll see digital only multimedia magazines on tablets as the most demanding of image quality source materials for consumers... the ability to swipe and zoom in on fine details in images will raise the bar for still and video image quality...

FF won't save your bacon if you're not proficient at shooting high quality, hi res stills AND video.... in a few more years..
02-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #2572
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF with a hybrid viewfinder is something I can see on the horizon for Pentax. A nice, bright optical viewfinder by default, an EVF overlay in Live View mode and while filming. This is definitely "different". It's either this or a mirrorless FF Pentax is thinking about, because such a camera must have an unique selling point (and size is not an important selling point).
My two main reasons for FF are a better viewfinder (I like my K-x but really, compared to my old KX or 645N, the viewfinder is bonkers, too limited) and more control over DOF.
That viewfinder may be optical or not, I'm not dogmatic. I would love a waist-level finder whether EVF or (less likely) OVF. Wasn't it "Douglas of Sweden" who had a suggestion there?
02-20-2012, 02:58 AM   #2573
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QuoteOriginally posted by D0n Quote
eventually we'll see digital only multimedia magazines on tablets as the most demanding of image quality source materials for consumers... the ability to swipe and zoom in on fine details in images will raise the bar for still and video image quality...

FF won't save your bacon if you're not proficient at shooting high quality, hi res stills AND video.... in a few more years..
Interesting... Maybe Pentax aticipates that and is just skipping the FF?

02-20-2012, 07:52 AM   #2574
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Even users who have invested extensively in the Pentax DA (APS-C) lens lineup could consider upgrading to the full-frame body if it were to automatically support APS-C format lenses (by reducting the image size and indicating this in the viewfinder
A couple of comments intrigue me. First was this quote from the original letter to Pentax. Wouldn't reducing the image size on a (less dense) FF sensor and using a DA lens significantly reduce IQ compared to an optimized APS-C sensor? (Honest - not rhetorical question).

QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
No. I said the K-mount was designed for FF. It wasn't designed for 120. APS-c K-mount is a stop gap solution, because its using a mount designed for FF.
Worst still, the K-01 is APS-c using an FF mount, AND it's using a mount designed for a reflex.
And yes, using the FF logic, the 645 mount was designed for 6x4.5 but the 645D is using a crop sensor and i demand FF 645 for that mount also.
µ4/3 is perfectly fine in my book.
Maybe another question stemmijg from my lack of understanding, but what does the mount have to do with it? Doesn't the mount simply attach the lens to the body and pass signals through a set of contacts? I would assume the combination of the lens and sensor geometries are the significant factors. As long as the mount doesn't get in the way, what difference does it make?

Even though I continue not to be convinced of the need for full frame, I still follow this thread (maybe I need help).
02-20-2012, 08:01 AM   #2575
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QuoteOriginally posted by sandilands Quote
A couple of comments intrigue me. First was this quote from the original letter to Pentax. Wouldn't reducing the image size on a (less dense) FF sensor and using a DA lens significantly reduce IQ compared to an optimized APS-C sensor? (Honest - not rhetorical question)
Depends on how high the resolution of the FF sensor is. If you apply a 1,5 crop to a 18mp sensor, you'll get APSC images of 12mp. Less then the K5. That's why many whish for the 36mp sensor.
02-20-2012, 10:25 AM   #2576
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Depends on how high the resolution of the FF sensor is. If you apply a 1,5 crop to a 18mp sensor, you'll get APSC images of 12mp. Less then the K5. That's why many whish for the 36mp sensor.
8MP actually, the crop factor is for a single side. (So you get a crop factor of 2.25 for area.)
02-20-2012, 11:12 AM   #2577
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QuoteOriginally posted by sandilands Quote
Maybe another question stemmijg from my lack of understanding, but what does the mount have to do with it? Doesn't the mount simply attach the lens to the body and pass signals through a set of contacts? I would assume the combination of the lens and sensor geometries are the significant factors. As long as the mount doesn't get in the way, what difference does it make?
Well, since the K mount was designed to use lenses and film that support a Full Frame image circle it had to be made to dimensions that support it. A mount designed for APS-C to begin with could be designed to be much smaller. When the first K mount digital cameras were produced they used an APS-C sensor because it was cheaper. The entry barriers that pentax faces for any camera entering the full frame market are now twofold: The original price barrier remains, but now there is also the fact that they have been designing lenses that do not cover the 135 (FF) image circle.

But that's it. Those are the only downsides. As to why some people want a full frame sensor in the full frame K mount, the answer is simple: You've got a big cup, why only fill it half way up?
02-20-2012, 11:18 AM   #2578
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Olympus said otherwise, before going mirrorless (then, suddenly their position changed 180 degree). A "digital" mount should be bigger, and the lenses telecentric by nature.
02-20-2012, 12:05 PM   #2579
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QuoteOriginally posted by RXrenesis8 Quote
Well, since the K mount was designed to use lenses and film that support a Full Frame image circle it had to be made to dimensions that support it. A mount designed for APS-C to begin with could be designed to be much smaller.
The q-mount's sensor is MUCH smaller than full frame (1/30 the area or so?), and yet the q-mount isn't tiny, perhaps 1/2 the diameter, so 1/4 the area.

I guess I'm saying the auxilliary stuff you have to put in there diminishes the advantages you might think you'd get going to a smaller sensor.
06-01-2012, 01:45 AM   #2580
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
K-mount = their main source of income.
Ditching K-mount = ... yep, suicide.
And please, don't tell me how I'll be able to use my lenses with an adapter, on a camera I'd most likely hate, without ever seeing again a new K-mount lens or camera.

Foma, tomorrow morning I'll read the newspapers expecting to see Canikon's demise. NOT!
Nope. They are going mirrorless, just not as fast as Pana/Oly and Sony.
And so does Pentax. Sadly, Pentax decided to keep K-mount.


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If you hate the Pentax K so much, go find your own system - instead of saying we should all give up on our equipment.
Thanks for the advice.
It is not a hate, it is a desire to stay with Pentax and have a decent modern camera at the same time.
OK, Pentax is going to keep making bulky cameras with huge flange focal distance, so it's all yours. Enjoy.
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