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06-19-2012, 06:43 PM   #2731
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrCynical Quote
They currently sell an f1.8 medium telephoto prime (the FA77) at roughly 100% more than Canikon's equivalent lenses (the 85 f1.8s). If they think they can get away with it for lenses, why not bodies?
The K-5 sold at a higher introductory price than the D7000, so I guess if Pentax launches an FF it will probably also be around the D800's price range, not the D600's.

Ricoh's probably having a problem how to keep up with the D800's 36mp sensor so they're re-tweaking what else they can with the Pentax FF to make sure they can offer something else, in other areas. If Pentax will launch the mythical FF, it will probably not be this year. Maybe not even an official announcement - a sneak peek at Photokina, maybe. What's interesting is the new DA* 16?-85? on the lens roadmap. It might be an FF lens.... but a costly one, unlike Nikon's new vari-aperture FF zoom...

06-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #2732
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrCynical Quote
They currently sell an f1.8 medium telephoto prime (the FA77) at roughly 100% more than Canikon's equivalent lenses (the 85 f1.8s). If they think they can get away with it for lenses, why not bodies?
You are comparing a huge and heavy lens to lightweight pancake. One made of metal too. It's comparing apples to oranges. Pentax used to make cheap 85mm lenses, they are still available 2nd hand. There's no reason they couldn't bring back one of those designs.
06-19-2012, 07:00 PM   #2733
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
The K-5 sold at a higher introductory price than the D7000, so I guess if Pentax launches an FF it will probably also be around the D800's price range, not the D600's.
Even pricing it at whatever the D800 will be selling at when Pentax's FF is launched will still be cheaper than Canon's 5D MIII.. but you'd have to be fairly vested and tied to your Pentax Glass to not take the D800, sure the files are fairly large, but the detail you can pull from the resolution sure is nice!
06-20-2012, 01:32 AM   #2734
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Pentax was never a rangefinder company and were responsible for it's complete marginalization more than any other company
Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus all have roots in R/F and are still pursuing it in one form or another. What does that tell us? Silly for Pentax to stay out, especially with Ricoh alongside. R/F provides more degrees of freedom in design, portability, cost and market than SLR.

06-20-2012, 02:38 AM   #2735
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Throwing another rangefinder camera on the market wouldn't be that intelligent because of the limitations a RF brings to a system like eg. the fact you can't mount lenses bigger than a special size because you might see the lens in the RF. Especially longer tele lenses are hard to focus due to the fixed RF field of view.
Furthermore, Canon, Nikon and Olympus don't even produce RF cameras anymore since a looong time. Fujifilm just launched the X-Pro 1 to provide an digital RF system which is less expensive than Leica and found a market niche. Brands for which it might be useful to launch a RF camera are those who already have a camera system which has a short ffd. And these brands are Sony, Olympus, Samsung and Panasonic.
I guess you'd like to see a K-mount RF camera but I also assume you've seen the K-01. You wouldn't want a brick like this as an RF camera. Nevertheless, all Pentax limited lenses are actually very good for a RF system. They are very compact and would perfectly fit the viewfinder and it's "Leuchtrahmen" (sorry, I don't know the English term for these frames which display the fov of different focal lenghths).

Short and crisp: A Pentax RF camera would be as nice as unreasonable due to the need of an completely new system.
06-20-2012, 02:53 AM   #2736
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"Sony, Olympus, Samsung and Panasonic" - I doubt they would care about a niche market.
Fujifilm? They don't make rangefinders either (though their X100 and X-Pro1 are made to looks like one).
A K-mount RF, that would be impossible; a RF needs a mechanical linkage between the lens and the RF mechanism, which of course the K-mount lacks (doesn't need it).
06-20-2012, 03:14 AM   #2737
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"Sony, Olympus, Samsung and Panasonic" - I doubt they would care about a niche market.
I don't think so either. Rangefinder cameras are interesting and nice for enthusiasts, not in the eyes of the masses. That's why the brands listed above won't ever produce RF cameras though they wouldn't have to launch a completely new system. People who want to shoot with a RF camera will buy a Leica (or maybe a Zeiss ZM for film lovers) sooner or later.

QuoteQuote:
A K-mount RF, that would be impossible; a RF needs a mechanical linkage between the lens and the RF mechanism, which of course the K-mount lacks (doesn't need it).
Yep. Forgot that
06-20-2012, 05:12 AM   #2738
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"Sony, Olympus, Samsung and Panasonic" - I doubt they would care about a niche market.
Fujifilm? They don't make rangefinders either (though their X100 and X-Pro1 are made to looks like one).
A K-mount RF, that would be impossible; a RF needs a mechanical linkage between the lens and the RF mechanism, which of course the K-mount lacks (doesn't need it).
Fuji though has a really long history of RF cameras in the Medium format market and produced them until very recently. It made complete sense for them to make one. It would make sense for Cosina as well (they did partner on the Epson RD1 which was essentially a digital Bessa) but they have stated no interest in pursuing a digital RF at this time - they have found their niche too Affordable FF rangefinders through film)
Sony and Panasonic not a chance - the Nex 7 is Sony's RF. Panasonic would just need to do a modest change to one of their bodies for the same idea.
Real Rangefinders require a quite complex VF mechanism for focusing and it is expensive to produce. I'm sure Fuji took their route because in many ways it is the better more modern alternative
Like I said previously not a chance we will see this type of design from Pentax, even under the Ricoh brand it's highly improbable - the M mountor is what they are doing for the RF client
As pointed out by others their are many limitations to an RF system. Personally I love shooting with one but cannot afford to shoot Leica digital (or for the most part Leica) If I had money to spare not headed for Pentax it would be for a Bessa kit with 2 lenses, but i'm not certain about how long they will make Bessa, In Canada their hasn't been a dealer shipment in close to a year according to my dealer. he has sold off all his bessa voigtlander product and picked up the Zeiss (a beautiful camera that)

06-20-2012, 05:17 AM   #2739
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrCynical Quote
They currently sell an f1.8 medium telephoto prime (the FA77) at roughly 100% more than Canikon's equivalent lenses (the 85 f1.8s). If they think they can get away with it for lenses, why not bodies?
the FA 77 versus the canon is not a true comparison. the 77 is a whole different beast, better built more compact with better rendering. Lenses are an area you can get away with some varying prices just due to such differences. to sell a camera body at that type of premium would mean a need for substantial differences. It would also relegate any FF from Pentax to a smaller niche versus a volume player that the sub $2 grand models. Ricoh I beleive wants to become a much larger volume player, missing the mark on price by that much would not help that
06-20-2012, 05:19 AM   #2740
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Fuji though has a really long history of RF cameras in the Medium format market and produced them until very recently.
Fuji still produces a medium format film rangefinder, the GF670:

06-20-2012, 05:29 AM   #2741
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QuoteOriginally posted by unfocused Quote
Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus all have roots in R/F and are still pursuing it in one form or another. What does that tell us? Silly for Pentax to stay out, especially with Ricoh alongside. R/F provides more degrees of freedom in design, portability, cost and market than SLR.
show me a Canon Nikon Olympus or Fuji Rangefinder. the only thing close if the X100/Xpro and that is not a rangefinder it just hints at one. If you believe any of these product are rangefinders (or even give the same user experience as a rangefinder) then you have never shot a rangefinder. the mechanical linkage and Rangefinder window are a complex mechanism. very limited in useful focal lengths and in fact are usually optimized for 3 -4 specific focal lengths. They can be fantastic to shoot with but they are a Limited niche product. Have been for oh i don't know 50+ years now. Canon and Nikon haven't made a rangefinder since the 60's except for a couple of fixed lens models by canon - essentially the enthusiast P/S of their day - same for oly who never made an RF with interchangeable lenses, neither did Ricoh. these were the domain in the post SLR world of Bessa zeiss and leica primarily in 35mm and Mamiya and Fuji and Bronica in Medium format. sales of all these cameras combined would not have equaled a spotmatic in volume Some stellar cameras but really limited market
06-20-2012, 05:32 AM   #2742
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Fuji still produces a medium format film rangefinder, the GF670:
Co produces with Bessa - that's a Bess III - it costs more than the xpro with a lens too

there is a 6x9 variant as well.

But I think for most purposes the [people calling for an RF are thinking of an interchangeable lens RF. that realm is now just Leica Zeiss and Bessa.

a FF digital GF670 would be something though
06-20-2012, 05:48 AM   #2743
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QuoteOriginally posted by BassPeer Quote
Throwing another rangefinder camera on the market wouldn't be that intelligent because of the limitations a RF brings to a system like eg. the fact you can't mount lenses bigger than a special size because you might see the lens in the RF. Especially longer tele lenses are hard to focus due to the fixed RF field of view.
Furthermore, Canon, Nikon and Olympus don't even produce RF cameras anymore since a looong time. Fujifilm just launched the X-Pro 1 to provide an digital RF system which is less expensive than Leica and found a market niche. Brands for which it might be useful to launch a RF camera are those who already have a camera system which has a short ffd. And these brands are Sony, Olympus, Samsung and Panasonic.
I guess you'd like to see a K-mount RF camera but I also assume you've seen the K-01. You wouldn't want a brick like this as an RF camera. Nevertheless, all Pentax limited lenses are actually very good for a RF system. They are very compact and would perfectly fit the viewfinder and it's "Leuchtrahmen" (sorry, I don't know the English term for these frames which display the fov of different focal lenghths).

Short and crisp: A Pentax RF camera would be as nice as unreasonable due to the need of an completely new system.
The leica M mount could maybe work on APS-C dslr so i wouldn't mind if Pentax and Leica join hands
06-20-2012, 05:52 AM   #2744
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I think Ricoh might think they already have that covered.
06-20-2012, 06:22 AM   #2745
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
What's interesting is the new DA* 16?-85? on the lens roadmap. It might be an FF lens.... but a costly one, unlike Nikon's new vari-aperture FF zoom...
It is clear from the roadmap that this lens is APS only due to the color code they use on the map.
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