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06-20-2012, 02:24 PM   #2761
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
but we all know that lots of the DAs and DA*s are FF compatible. Pentax will need to rebadge lots of lenses if they do bring out a FF camera. otherwise anyone who doesn't read this forum would think there are only like 6 current lenses that work on it!

whats more, putting it in FF colours would make it completely obvious that they are planning a FF, and would spoil all of their effort hiding it.

i don't think that the colours mean anything really. though 16 on FF is very wide.

It is wishful thinking to the extreme to believe that any of the lenses on the roadmap are designed for FF. If there are FF lenses in the works they are not on the roadmap.
Color code does indeed mean something. Grey= D-FA (FF), purple=FA LImited (FF), Green=DA (APS), Orange=DA* (APS).

06-20-2012, 02:32 PM   #2762
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It is wishful thinking to the extreme to believe that any of the lenses on the roadmap are designed for FF. If there are FF lenses in the works they are not on the roadmap.
Color code does indeed mean something. Grey= D-FA (FF), purple=FA LImited (FF), Green=DA (APS), Orange=DA* (APS).
Maybe, but many of the DA and DA* lenses happen to be FF, though not listed officially.
06-20-2012, 03:33 PM   #2763
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It is wishful thinking to the extreme to believe that any of the lenses on the roadmap are designed for FF. If there are FF lenses in the works they are not on the roadmap.
I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the 560mm image circle does not cover the 135 format frame, In addition to the 1.4x teleconverter and the 50mm 1.8.
06-20-2012, 03:51 PM   #2764
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QuoteOriginally posted by RXrenesis8 Quote
I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the 560mm image circle does not cover the 135 format frame, In addition to the 1.4x teleconverter and the 50mm 1.8.
But the design chosen for the 560mm lens is apparently one that does not give great corner performance. This is of no or little issue with a cropped sensor but will be on a FF camera. Leica used the same type of telephoto design on their old superteles (wasn't that a 560mm as well?) and they were not sharp in the corners. Hence, we can assume that this telephoto lens is designed for APS. The cost saving over a conventional ED IF traditional telephoto is likely collossal as the latter would probably cost $8000.

06-20-2012, 03:58 PM   #2765
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
16 on FF is very wide.
The actual focal lengths are ambiguous. It could be 16-85, it could be 24-75. They're trying to keep the actual focal lengths under wraps, that's why it's faded in/out (future product, but something in 'this range') rather than definitive lines.

I agree that a 16-85 is (almost) impossible for a FF camera. That's like a 12-55 on APS-C... it's just not happening.
06-20-2012, 04:07 PM   #2766
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
But the design chosen for the 560mm lens is apparently one that does not give great corner performance. This is of no or little issue with a cropped sensor but will be on a FF camera. Leica used the same type of telephoto design on their old superteles (wasn't that a 560mm as well?) and they were not sharp in the corners. Hence, we can assume that this telephoto lens is designed for APS. The cost saving over a conventional ED IF traditional telephoto is likely collossal as the latter would probably cost $8000.
It depends where the corner is. If the corner is a ff corner then the lens is a full frame lens. At least in my opinion.

It might give extra creamy bokeh in the corners and be brilliant on full frame for small subjects.
06-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #2767
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I don't agree with the assertions that a FF pentax would be priced alongside the D800. I don't think pentax would bother with FF unless they can come up with a niche-market- small size, cheap FF (relative to other brands) etc. A 24mp (if the vague rumours are true) with a target price down around the $2,000 mark makes sense. any mp and up around $3500 makes none. They will need something that is going to move in volume, not another 645 specialist, and a high price would rule out an awful lot of buyers. imo it has to be cheapish, or not at all..
06-20-2012, 05:11 PM   #2768
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The DA 300 is roadmap-colored as a DA lens, called a DA lens, is patented as a FF lens, and is a quite capable FF lens.
The DA 40 is roadmap-colored as a DA lens, called a DA lens, and is a quite capable FF lens.

....

06-20-2012, 05:25 PM   #2769
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
but we all know that lots of the DAs and DA*s are FF compatible.
NOt that many. The DA *200 and 300, and the DA 40's and the 70, but with slight vignetting, more than may be acceptable for the price/performance ratio.

It's zooms where the challenge lies.
06-20-2012, 06:52 PM   #2770
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
NOt that many. The DA *200 and 300, and the DA 40's and the 70, but with slight vignetting, more than may be acceptable for the price/performance ratio.

It's zooms where the challenge lies.
My experience with the DA70 wide open is that it is NOT acceptable for full frame. The DA70 must be stopped down unless you enjoy moderate vignetting.
06-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #2771
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
NOt that many. The DA *200 and 300, and the DA 40's and the 70, but with slight vignetting, more than may be acceptable for the price/performance ratio.

It's zooms where the challenge lies.
Without a doubt they need a 24-75 or so f/2.8. I also believe they need a 70/200 f/2.8 or so, but for now the 60-250 will suffice. A 24-75 f/4 or f/3.5-4.5 or whatever would also be on the short list.
06-20-2012, 07:57 PM   #2772
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
NOt that many. The DA *200 and 300, and the DA 40's and the 70, but with slight vignetting, more than may be acceptable for the price/performance ratio.

It's zooms where the challenge lies.
Da55, da35/2.4, supposedly the new 50. The FA limiteds are the real draws, of course.

Nikon provides a 1.2 and 1.5 crop in their bodies. Most of the lineup would work at 1.2.
06-20-2012, 08:56 PM   #2773
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Does Nikon provide a 'complete override'? I.e. can I crop later? I'd love to be able to do 5:4 sometimes, etc... and I can choose my own level of 'satisfactory IQ'.
06-21-2012, 02:39 AM   #2774
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Yes, TTL autofocus makes an actual rangefinder unnecessary, but it's the way rangefinder style cameras with their optical/hybrid viewfinders handle that makes the difference, as several people here have remarked. At the beginning I did say "digital R/F type (so brilliantly interpreted by Fuji with their X-100)", so I use the term "rangefinder" loosely. I regard the Canon G12 and G1-X as falling into this category. If you have a specialist need involving long-ish telephotos or fat super-wides it's obviously not for you.

The G1-X is getting there. The Mk2 version, when it arrives, could be close to the ideal everyday travel/walkabout camera with IQ matching the APSC dSLRs. I have a G12 which is great to use but needs a m4/3 sensor. As a stop-gap I've taken to using a Lumix GF3 with 1.7/20 lens. Nice, but annoying without an optical eye-level viewfinder. The 1.7/20 glass might as well be fixed because lumpy slow zooms don't make much sense on this type of camera. In future - for me at any rate - the dSLR will be used for specialist tasks while 'normal' or routine picture-taking will be handled by an R/F style camera with fixed prime or short zoom.

If the K-01 was an attempt by Pentax to stop people like me wandering off down the road into the arms of Panasonic, Canon or Fuji it misfired cmpletely.
06-21-2012, 03:37 AM   #2775
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Lol, 2700+ posts in and there's no real evidence that Pentax have listened and no real evidence of any FF camera system Pentax might be making. On the internet, every reality is a fantasy and every fantasy is a reality.

I'm rather with "unfocused" above about form factors. I have a K-01 and, provided the task is fairly simple, find it much more convenient than a full-on DSLR. The image quality is just as good - same primes, almost the same sensor. If the K-01 were redesigned and generally worked over, which I hope it will be, then we'll have the design of a high-quality line of cameras for the future which could deal with most tasks well and probably nearly all tasks for a lot of folks. Those who want the full monty, the long lenses and the specialist things, can turn to their DSLR though eventually, perhaps, that will be at a premium price.

There are arguments both in favour of a "me-too" Canonikon style DSLR from Pentax and in favour of something very different, perhaps more MILC or Fuji style. We'll see, Only Pentax can really know about the facts and figures and what makes most sense to them. They are a conservative company and they always put serious emphasis on fine image quality so whether folks like any Pentax FF or not, I'd bet its images will be top notch.

Lenses: well, they could start a new line of FF-designated lenses all with motors and WR. Back to the future with clockwork lenses doesn't do it for me. Existing qualifiers - a few DA* ones - could be flushed out via rebate sales and then a new, revised batch introduced.

I really hope Pentax don't launch an FF camera, if they do launch one, into the present hodge-podge of lenses. Some will work, some won't work at all, some will nearly work, etc., etc. To launch FF without clearning up their lines would be very amateur, imho, and probably the retail trade wouldn't stand for it anyway. Staff would be confused and customers upset. Not good. Retailers and customers want clarity, I'd have thought.

Anyway, maybe to a degree the argument isn't over FF, it's over cost, complexity and size versus convenience and affordability. For all but a tiny number of people - who should expect to pay up, pay up and pay the game - sensor size is not in fact the key attribute, And of those who do pay up, I wonder what proportion are laying out their own money rather than a company's. That too is a factor Pentax would have to consider since they don't have a presence in the rental/corporates pro market.

Last edited by mecrox; 06-21-2012 at 03:46 AM.
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