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07-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #2926
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Of course. Much damage can be done to the K-mount this way.
Should we start again the old discussions?

07-06-2012, 03:31 PM   #2927
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Is it more risky then FF you think?
a new mount makes no sense. By having a "FF" mount would eliminate the ability for legacy lenses, (something Rioch and Pentax are invested in), would elimiate the ability to use current DA series lenses (APS-C or FF format. the competing FF's scale down to use ASP-C lenses. this would alienate too many), and would just add more confusion.

There are certain ways that Nikon/Canon have gone that just make sense. Sure a new mount could have its benifits. But I don't think it would be a viable buisiness decision.
07-06-2012, 04:26 PM   #2928
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
By having a "FF" mount would eliminate the ability for legacy lenses, (something Rioch and Pentax are invested in), would elimiate the ability to use current DA series lenses (APS-C or FF format. the competing FF's scale down to use ASP-C lenses. this would alienate too many), and would just add more confusion.
Adapter can be made, if you don't want the new mount then leave the adapter on permanently and your current lenses can still be used.

Why is a new mount confusing?
Q has a new mount, was that confusing...

Also what about my legacy of DA lenses, they won't work on FF *sniff*

Last edited by Anvh; 07-06-2012 at 07:04 PM.
07-06-2012, 04:38 PM   #2929
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Is it more risky then FF you think?
Yes, by an order of magnitude or 2.

07-06-2012, 04:39 PM   #2930
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Is it more risky then FF you think?
If a K-mount FF is a failure and abandoned, all lenses made for FF can still be used on every single Pentax SLR. All optical designs past and present are still valid. Lenses can be updates of old designs, minimizing required investment and subsequent loss in the event of failure.

If a new mount (a shorter one like you seem to want) is a failure and abandoned, all lenses made for it turn into useless junk. All lenses would have been made from scratch, maximizing investment. Failure = entire R&D investment down the drain.

So yes, a new mount is orders of magnitude more risky, for very little return.

Last edited by Cannikin; 07-06-2012 at 04:48 PM.
07-06-2012, 04:52 PM   #2931
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
If a K-mount FF is a failure and abandoned
Lol - you say this as if there is [a FF] actually in the works...

Love the enthusiasm...






...
07-06-2012, 04:59 PM   #2932
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Lol - you say this as if there is [a FF] actually in the works...

Love the enthusiasm...
Um, have you even followed the conversation for the last dozen or so posts? This is a comparison between the risk of going with a hypothetical FF and a hypothetical new mount. What I believe will happen is a separate matter.

Also, I hope I don't have to explain the semantics of the conditional "if" and the indefinite article "a".
Hint: the clause "If I were a king" does not imply that I expect to be a king, nor does it require that there be a king at all.

Last edited by Cannikin; 07-06-2012 at 06:13 PM.
07-06-2012, 07:11 PM   #2933
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
If a K-mount FF is a failure and abandoned, all lenses made for FF can still be used on every single Pentax SLR. All optical designs past and present are still valid. Lenses can be updates of old designs, minimizing required investment and subsequent loss in the event of failure.

If a new mount (a shorter one like you seem to want) is a failure and abandoned, all lenses made for it turn into useless junk. All lenses would have been made from scratch, maximizing investment. Failure = entire R&D investment down the drain.

So yes, a new mount is orders of magnitude more risky, for very little return.
Unless they won't use an aperture ring.

But you're looking at it from a consumer standpoint, there is nothing better for Pentax that you buy a new camera and new lenses.
And in all honesty, sure some shoot with SLR but you can put that up as an point.
It's like bringing out a blu-ray player but instead of HDMI you make it with a scart connector saying that if you still have an old TV you can still use it.... why restrict yourself with something old while you can take the step to something better?

What is there is there so little on the return, you place yourself in an unique market position. Also look at m4/3 and the amount of adapters you've for that. Pentax with a shorter mount would mean you can fit Canon, Nikon and Sony lenses on it and maybe even Leica M lenses.

07-07-2012, 02:20 AM   #2934
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Adapter can be made, if you don't want the new mount then leave the adapter on permanently and your current lenses can still be used.

Why is a new mount confusing?
Q has a new mount, was that confusing...

Also what about my legacy of DA lenses, they won't work on FF *sniff*
A new mount is the end for Pentax. Don't forget the Pentax mount is FF anyway. There is no need to switch and if Pentax would switch, they would need to start with a complete set of matching lenses. That is too expensive for Pentax. Retaining the old K-mount (at least mechanically), was the only reason for many Pentax film shooters to stay with Pentax during those times, when Pentax had no DSLR (remember they were very late on the market) and then going through the first three generations of DSLR bodies with more or less useless AF.

Fortunately the K1 uses the old mount, despite it is mirrorless, so I think, this indicates at last some reasoning by Pentax.

If they switch mount now, they will loose a lot of loyal customers.

Ben
07-07-2012, 03:00 AM   #2935
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You would still be able to use K-mount lenses, who said anything about dropping the whole legacy thing?
About FF, i'm sure i'm not the only one who only has DA lenses so my chose is quite clear when I want to get FF i need to start over and i can tell you i won't pick Pentax most likely, gladly i don't want FF so there is nothing to worry about ;p
The costs, that will be just as high as starting a new FF line, there is only little difference in that.

The problem with FF now is that they are simply too late anyone that needed FF has already switch to Canon or Nikon so you can forget the professional market at the moment and that's where most of the money is. Not in the people that buy a FF body so that they can use their old lenses, most likely they will do 6 years or longer with the body so that's not a basis to start a FF line on how glad some will want it.
In my honest opinion if Pentax will stick with APS-C then a mount that can compete with FF is much more interesting since they will create a new segment for themselves instead of competing directly with Canon and Nikon also they will draw in professionals that want/need a smaller and lighter set-up then FF.

The K-01 is such an oddity that i won't draw too much conclusions from that, the lens roadmap already says it all really.
07-07-2012, 03:09 AM   #2936
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Here we go again.
I want no stinkin' adapters. Two way compatibility is the only path that makes sense.
Launching a new system in an attempt to imitate others does not guarantee success. "I want a Sony Nex-5n/OM-G, erm, OM-D, only from Pentax" can't work.
Starting from scratch, with zero customers - what a brilliant idea! Not. Customers won't go berserk buying into the new system; instead, most loyal ones would be lost (breaking the compatibility hurts them the most)
A new system means way less resources for the K-mount. Which of the lenses from this roadmap do you consider unnecessary?
There is also a psychological factor: people would scream: "OMG, Pentax is phasing out the K-mount! Don't buy, until we see this is not the case". This would be artificially maintained mostly by people who are anything but Pentaxians.
A new system is not needed, period.
07-07-2012, 03:59 AM   #2937
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They can run both mounts simultaneous as well or a good adapter, i haven't heard a valid reason why not beside the personal opinion "i don't want one".
Well get some super glue and put it on the mount and perminantly fix it to the body, problem solved right?

Besides i'm not talking about a mirrorless solution here if you thought that and yes starting from scratch might be a good idea, just look what happend to Canon when they went to the new EOS mount or to olympus and Panasonic with their switch from 4/3th to m4/3 and looked what happened to Pentax when they hold on to the m42 mount. Sometimes you need to let go what you've to go further.

Who said anything about unnecessary lenses on the roadmap?

To be honest i think that actually most Pentaxians will say that, most are legacy users after all. Most people from the outside might look at this and sure they will find it bold but it does show they dare to look into the future. And when they see the f/2 zooms and f/1 primes they will see the reason behind it, besides such a mount will last longer into the future then the K-mount, that one is pretty much end of life if you ask me unless they go FF.
How long will DSLR have anyway in the mainstream market, 20 years at most if not 10 years... in all honesty the m4/3 looks pretty good and future proof, the Olympus OM-D is a step in the right direction i wonder how his predecessor will look like but it might be a candid even thought i actually want an optical viewfinder...

Depends on what Pentax wants, if they want to compete more in the professional market then they have to, either with a FF system or new APS-C system that can take on Canon and Nikon FF.
07-07-2012, 04:01 AM   #2938
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Here we go again.
I want no stinkin' adapters. Two way compatibility is the only path that makes sense.
Launching a new system in an attempt to imitate others does not guarantee success. "I want a Sony Nex-5n/OM-G, erm, OM-D, only from Pentax" can't work.
Starting from scratch, with zero customers - what a brilliant idea! Not. Customers won't go berserk buying into the new system; instead, most loyal ones would be lost (breaking the compatibility hurts them the most)
A new system means way less resources for the K-mount. Which of the lenses from this roadmap do you consider unnecessary?
There is also a psychological factor: people would scream: "OMG, Pentax is phasing out the K-mount! Don't buy, until we see this is not the case". This would be artificially maintained mostly by people who are anything but Pentaxians.
A new system is not needed, period.
Actually most people have never heard of K-mount and wouldn't be interested anyway. They just want a camera. And if the lens which came with the camera is adaptable enough, they will never buy another lens either. If Pentax genuinely think that something crucial to their future success requires a new mount, then they should introduce it. Eventually they will introduce it anyway, just as Nikon, Canon et al will too. Nothing lasts for ever.
07-07-2012, 04:07 AM   #2939
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Actually most people have never heard of K-mount and wouldn't be interested anyway.
Actually most people do not even know the name Pentax and as such would certainly not buy into a new system from an unknown brand. So only the legacy users might. But wouldn't. For obvious reasons.

New mount=Pentax death.
07-07-2012, 04:08 AM   #2940
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Actually most people have never heard of K-mount and wouldn't be interested anyway. They just want a camera. And if the lens which came with the camera is adaptable enough, they will never buy another lens either. If Pentax genuinely think that something crucial to their future success requires a new mount, then they should introduce it. Eventually they will introduce it anyway, just as Nikon, Canon et al will too. Nothing lasts for ever.
And now will be the time if you ask me, Pentax is at his low and the new money from Ricoh would help a lot but well the new cameras and the lensroadmap shows they will keep the mount so lets hope we will see a FF so that they have a good reason to keep it or else it's wasted money if you ask me.

Same with the 645D, i can see that actually going mirrorless quite easily i hope Ricoh dare to do that.
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