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10-21-2011, 12:51 AM   #286
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Even though I have also about 70 per cent fullframe compatible lenses I am doubtful that this would be an economically viable path forward. Personally I don't need fullframe and I am quite happy about the "tele"-effect as well as the slightly increased dof of crop. To compete against the big boys in this field may spell economic failure - large investments for a small slice of the market (after all ff-cameras cover less than 10 per cent of the total DSLR-market and CaNikon are already there with around 90 per cent of these 10). If it doesn't break the camels back - why not - I just don't see the economic feasibility for this.

10-21-2011, 12:55 AM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by kanzlr Quote
erm, no. I recently sold my D700 in favor of the K5. The Pentax is almost half the weight and CONSIDERABLY smaller. It makes a huge difference during travel. Also, Pentax lenses are as small as Leicas. A K5+Limited kit is as small and light as a Leica M8/9 kit (I owned an M8 with an assortment of elmarits).
While the D700 image quality is superb, it almost took the fun out of photography for me due to it being too cumbersome to carry around when on travel, during events, etc. I only used it for dedicated shooting sessions because of that. So while it is a superb camera, it really is not for everybody.
erm yes.

D700 - 147 x 123 x 77 mm/5.8 x 4.8 x 3.0 in. 995 g/2.19 lb. (without battery)
K5 - 131 x 97 x 73 mm (5.1 x 3.8 x 2.9 in) 750 g (1.6 lb) (with battery)

So 0.7 x 1.0 x 0.1 inches difference, that is very little, fractionally larger than a K20D (142 x 101 x 70 mm / 5.6 x 4.0 x 2.8 in) and no-one calls that large ! I'll give you the weight difference (but then using Pentax primes on it will make a K1 a lot lighter than a D700 with those large Nikon lenses) but it's still not heavy, much lighter than many lenses in fact !

I'll give you the travel bit for sure, however not many people take a full FF camera and lenses on their holidays but then that is a small part of annual usage, though personally I always take my K5 (and K7 before that). Of course as you say it's not for everyone but my original comments stand - there is little between them in size.
10-21-2011, 12:58 AM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by noVICE Quote
I'm all for pushing for better tech as long as the K mount is retained. I would be reluctant to buy a body without SR and I assume others feel the same, so I would doubt that they will remove it in their advanced amateur/pro range without a seriously good reason to do so. I still feel that there are some lenses missing from the Pentax lineup that would allow the brand to be more competitive with Canikon, but aside from that Pentax/Ricoh might want to put a little more effort into brand awareness. I recently finished a 2 month tour of Europe and I can count on one hand how many people I saw with Pentax cameras. One of the large duty free stores in Dubai airport had every other camera brand I could think of and no Pentax items. I guess my point is that Pentax/Ricoh has their work cut out for them, so I hope that they focus on making big strides forward while maintaining their existing fan base. Bring on FF, new lenses and better tech!!
Yep. Just about sums it up for me too.
10-21-2011, 01:02 AM   #289
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Maybe a mirrorless FF camera could be built so that it isn't heavier than the K-7?! I'd love that! Say like the NEX-7 in style ;-)!

10-21-2011, 01:03 AM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Knowing Pentax, I'd say their FF body would be affordable- at the very least, cheaper than the closest competitor. That would place it under $2500 for sure.
I am not too sure about that Adam. The K5 came in at a list price of around $1,700 when first launched didn't it (memory fails me) ? It was a lot more expensive than the Nikon D7000 and it was only when Pentax realised their great error that prices started dropping dramatically. I'd say US$3,000 - 3,500 by the time it arrives. IMHO only of course.
10-21-2011, 01:06 AM   #291
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very nice!
10-21-2011, 01:10 AM - 1 Like   #292
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What a sad, sad bunch we are...

And while Pentax may or may not release a FF camera eventually, that letter was exactly what I feared it to be: just general marketing talk with zero information.
10-21-2011, 01:20 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by angus Quote
Even though I have also about 70 per cent fullframe compatible lenses I am doubtful that this would be an economically viable path forward. Personally I don't need fullframe and I am quite happy about the "tele"-effect as well as the slightly increased dof of crop. To compete against the big boys in this field may spell economic failure - large investments for a small slice of the market (after all ff-cameras cover less than 10 per cent of the total DSLR-market and CaNikon are already there with around 90 per cent of these 10). If it doesn't break the camels back - why not - I just don't see the economic feasibility for this.
I'm not at all sure that it's not a very viable economic feasibility. The 645D currently costs x3 or x4 times what a FF camera costs and is still a success. Would a FF camera sell x3 or x4 more than a 645D ? It certainly would. The lens line-up is another issue but on camera sales alone I don't see a Pentax FF - the lack of which has cost Pentax umpteen sales in cameras and lenses over the years as users switch to CaNikon - failing.

10-21-2011, 01:45 AM   #294
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I wish Pentax to produce a mirrorless FF camera.

1. Large sensor cameras are going mirrorless as contrast detection AF catches up with the phase detection AF. No reason to invest in competitive FF DSLR and then switch to mirrorless in a few years.
The only niche left for bulky DSLRs will be action shooting with the fastest AF in existence, and Pentax is unlikely to beat AF performance of D3s and 1Dx anyways.

2. The only mirrorless FF camera on the market is the Leica M9, which does not have AF. Market is waiting for such camera, and Pentax could have a FF mirrorless market for itself for some time.
Pentax also could produce a first weatherproof mirrorless camera - for whatever reason other camera makers left weatherproof camera market for their DSLRs and compacts with smallish sensors.

3. Pentax Q is the smallest mirrorless (interchangeable lens) camera and won't compete with FF mirrorless camera.

4. FF mirrorless camera is also less likely to take users away from the 645D.

5. You could still have a phase detection AF with FA and DA lenses using adapter, as NEX users with LA-EA2 Lens Adapter. So it could be 2 cameras in 1 - DSLR(or DSLT) for those who need DSLR, mirrorless camera for the rest.

6. Using Focus Peaking in Live View and EVF, FF mirrorless camera could provide a better focus assistance with old manual leneses than current DSLRs do. Ricoh already has Focus Peaking technology in GXR A12 - why not to use it in Pentax?
You could even have AF confirmation with lenses that was designed as scale-focusing only, like Contax G Hologon 16mm or Zeiss Distagon T* ZM 15mm.

7. Mirrorless = short flange focal distance = ability to use lenses from any other brand/system with adapter = additional market for FF mirrorless camera.

8. Mirrorless = small and light camera body, even with SR

9. Mirrorless = small and optically good wide lenses = good for street shooting and landscape photography.

10. Small and light weatherproof FF camera with good wide lenses - a landscape photographer's dream come true.

I really I wish Pentax to produce a mirrorless FF camera.
10-21-2011, 01:47 AM   #295
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Full Frame

Best of luck to all you full-frame hopefuls. FF would not be for me. Personally, I was hoping for a compact mirrorless body which would take my APS-C lenses. I was disappointed by the Q.
10-21-2011, 01:48 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by fry Quote
PS. While I am writing about business sense, one thing to the Hoya-bashers in Pentaxland: it is SO easy to complain about "cost-cutting Hoya". Cost cutting sounds so cruel, so capitalistic, so lean and mean, so WRONG. But is it really? Cost cutting is very often the ONLY* available means of saving a company in the short term, when it is burning cash. Because of that, cost cutting is often (not always) less about sending employees on the street and more about securing jobs for the remainder of the staff. And cost cutting is not easy! - it is hard work. So I say "thank you Hoya for securing Pentax' future!". The further sale of Pentax to Ricoh may well be the next good thing for Pentax. So thanks again Hoya!
I was one of those who talked about "cost-cutting Hoya" - but am I really a Hoya-basher? Let's see some facts:
- Hoya bought Pentax against their will (hostile takeover) - with the help of the ex-president Fumio Urano and Sparx.
- by cost cutting, Hoya managed to bring Pentax back to profit. But, here's the trick: before being bought out, Pentax was profitable - and their top of the range camera - the K10D, quite a success. Why is that?
- Hoya did the cost cutting, Ricoh will be investing in order to grow Pentax.
However, IMO Hoya wasn't that bad as a owner - they just didn't put much effort into growing Pentax but we still saw them e.g. expanding into the DMF market.
10-21-2011, 01:56 AM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
erm yes.

D700 - 147 x 123 x 77 mm/5.8 x 4.8 x 3.0 in. 995 g/2.19 lb. (without battery)
K5 - 131 x 97 x 73 mm (5.1 x 3.8 x 2.9 in) 750 g (1.6 lb) (with battery)

So 0.7 x 1.0 x 0.1 inches difference, that is very little, fractionally larger than a K20D (142 x 101 x 70 mm / 5.6 x 4.0 x 2.8 in) and no-one calls that large ! I'll give you the weight difference (but then using Pentax primes on it will make a K1 a lot lighter than a D700 with those large Nikon lenses) but it's still not heavy, much lighter than many lenses in fact !

I'll give you the travel bit for sure, however not many people take a full FF camera and lenses on their holidays but then that is a small part of annual usage, though personally I always take my K5 (and K7 before that). Of course as you say it's not for everyone but my original comments stand - there is little between them in size.

well, of course you are right regarding the numbers, but I was surprised what a difference it makes in everyday usage. Of course big bodies have their advantages too
10-21-2011, 02:07 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by Foma Quote
I wish Pentax to produce a mirrorless FF camera.

1. Large sensor cameras are going mirrorless as contrast detection AF catches up with the phase detection AF. No reason to invest in competitive FF DSLR and then switch to mirrorless in a few years.
The only niche left for bulky DSLRs will be action shooting with the fastest AF in existence, and Pentax is unlikely to beat AF performance of D3s and 1Dx anyways.

2. The only mirrorless FF camera on the market is the Leica M9, which does not have AF. Market is waiting for such camera, and Pentax could have a FF mirrorless market for itself for some time.
Pentax also could produce a first weatherproof mirrorless camera - for whatever reason other camera makers left weatherproof camera market for their DSLRs and compacts with smallish sensors.

3. Pentax Q is the smallest mirrorless (interchangeable lens) camera and won't compete with FF mirrorless camera.

4. FF mirrorless camera is also less likely to take users away from the 645D.

5. You could still have a phase detection AF with FA and DA lenses using adapter, as NEX users with LA-EA2 Lens Adapter. So it could be 2 cameras in 1 - DSLR(or DSLT) for those who need DSLR, mirrorless camera for the rest.

6. Using Focus Peaking in Live View and EVF, FF mirrorless camera could provide a better focus assistance with old manual leneses than current DSLRs do. Ricoh already has Focus Peaking technology in GXR A12 - why not to use it in Pentax?
You could even have AF confirmation with lenses that was designed as scale-focusing only, like Contax G Hologon 16mm or Zeiss Distagon T* ZM 15mm.

7. Mirrorless = short flange focal distance = ability to use lenses from any other brand/system with adapter = additional market for FF mirrorless camera.

8. Mirrorless = small and light camera body, even with SR

9. Mirrorless = small and optically good wide lenses = good for street shooting and landscape photography.

10. Small and light weatherproof FF camera with good wide lenses - a landscape photographer's dream come true.

I really I wish Pentax to produce a mirrorless FF camera.
+1, I have the same thoughts. It's a very good moment to drop K-mount at all and switch to mirrorless. But the first thing should be an adapter with auto aperture, SDM and screw drive support. I guess this will be the best solution.
10-21-2011, 02:09 AM - 1 Like   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
It's a very good moment to drop K-mount
Did he really say that? It's like cursing in a church.
10-21-2011, 02:13 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
It's a very good moment to drop K-mount at all
So you want Pentax to commit suicide? The last thing they need is yet another mount.
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