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07-12-2012, 09:30 PM   #3076
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You really have to work on accuracy.
What you actually said:

How I answered:

Which, FYI, is a valid answer - the professional market not being limited to the small format - and exactly the path Pentax is following.
When Pentax finally comes out with FF, we no longer would be able to see such a fantastic exchange of verbiage - what a shame . . . .

07-12-2012, 09:39 PM   #3077
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Nonsense.. it will not have the right features on it.. something will be wrong with the camera. There will always be a reason for these forums.. the main reason.. to unload our opinions as if they really matter here as well as sell our gear for that Nikon or other FF.
07-12-2012, 10:57 PM   #3078
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mehlsack Quote
But dont you think that 645D vs 4D etc. is not a valid comparison, because it addresses different target groups? Dont you think that "competing" in the "Pro segment" might include this (sports, action, lifestyle) shooting ? Havent seen a paparazo with a Hassi etc.
I haven't said anything about 645D vs 4D (Nikon D4? low-ish resolution, high speed - an entirely different kind of beast). And I don't care about what else the "Pro segment" might include, Pentax would chose the one on which they can compete and suits them the best.
Medium format is precisely this; they have the advantage on this market, they can design, make and sell competitive cameras for less than others. They don't need some crazy AF with 3D colour tracking, nor lightning fast anything; they can even share components with APS-C cameras.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
When Pentax finally comes out with FF, we no longer would be able to see such a fantastic exchange of verbiage - what a shame . . . .
Pentax making a FF camera would not change anything, unless you're talking about D4&1DX kind of cameras (and lenses, accessories, support). Which would be sort of impossible for them, at least for now.
L.E. Oh, wait. It would prove Anvh's suppositions incorrect. But then, every new K-mount camera and lens does that.
07-13-2012, 12:36 AM - 2 Likes   #3079
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A Pentax FF could and should be something the others are not. I.e. smaller, rugged, completely weather sealed, photographer-centric controls, with IQ on absolute position #1. I do not need superb tracking AF and the like, but I would like the best viewfinder of any FF camera out there.

07-13-2012, 12:45 AM   #3080
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF could and should be something the others are not. I.e. smaller, rugged, completely weather sealed, photographer-centric controls, with IQ on absolute position #1. I do not need superb tracking AF and the like, but I would like the best viewfinder of any FF camera out there.
I agree completely! Even ditch the SR system to save some space, have a nice bright viewfinder, an amazing sensor good control layout and wrap it up in a nice rugged weather sealed mag-alloy body.
07-13-2012, 01:02 AM   #3081
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF could and should be something the others are not. I.e. smaller, rugged, completely weather sealed, photographer-centric controls, with IQ on absolute position #1. I do not need superb tracking AF and the like, but I would like the best viewfinder of any FF camera out there.
What you're describing is not a "pro-level FF".
But then, I don't see myself buying a "pro-level FF". OTOH your idea of a Pentax FF, with which I completely agree, sounds very tempting.
07-13-2012, 01:34 AM   #3082
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What you're describing is not a "pro-level FF".
But then, I don't see myself buying a "pro-level FF". OTOH your idea of a Pentax FF, with which I completely agree, sounds very tempting.
I'm glad that some here like my idea. Of course, "pro level" can mean anything. I think there could and should be several variations on the "pro level" theme. I.e. Canon and Nikon have fast cameras, cameras suitable for studio work, etc. Pentax should definitely follow the WR path with a rugged FF DSLR for outdoor photographers. No compromises on the IQ side of things but a camera an explorer on the North Pole, in the Gobi Desert etc. would want to take with her/him. A camera with no problems with heat or extreme cold, excessive moisture etc. I'm an outdoor man myself but a Canon 5D simply does not have enough sealing for me... I believe I have read an article on Luminous Landscape where they have taken several 5DII's into the antarctic and they failed. A Pentax should do better in this regard
07-13-2012, 02:04 AM   #3083
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF could and should be something the others are not. I.e. smaller, rugged, completely weather sealed, photographer-centric controls, with IQ on absolute position #1. I do not need superb tracking AF and the like, but I would like the best viewfinder of any FF camera out there.
I agree with that too!
In my field in photography and my style of photographing my subjects, a rugged full-weather-sealed full-frame Pentax dslr with big bright viewfinder and a quality sensor is what I need, and of course with matching quality wr zoom/prime lenses...

07-13-2012, 05:08 AM   #3084
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A Pentax FF could and should be something the others are not. I.e. smaller, rugged, completely weather sealed, photographer-centric controls, with IQ on absolute position #1. I do not need superb tracking AF and the like, but I would like the best viewfinder of any FF camera out there.
This is the exact niche they can fill. Priced in the entry level zone less than a D800/5D3 but more than a D600 probably

Rock solid, well built and Photographer friendly.
07-13-2012, 05:24 AM   #3085
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Pentax should definitely follow the WR path with a rugged FF DSLR for outdoor photographers. No compromises on the IQ side of things but a camera an explorer on the North Pole, in the Gobi Desert etc. would want to take with her/him. A camera with no problems with heat or extreme cold, excessive moisture etc.
I think this would make a very smart move for Pentax. I said it before, Pentax should make a mission statement and follow that path to a succesfull brand in photography (but for those video is also very important).

And again on those trips size does matter, so making things smaller is also a wise thing.

Having a sensor for themselves is also a good move. When Sony can make a sensor for Olympus then they can also make a special order for Pentax. Maybe they could order an APS-H sized large 4:3th sensor for future generations camera's. Claim your own space in the world, instead of waiting for a sensor to come along to use in your camera's that aren't that different from other brands with the same sensor.
07-13-2012, 02:38 PM   #3086
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I almost just started a new thread about this, but decided not to.

Would anyone like to take a moment to lament the fact that there is no low-cost wide angle prime for aps-c? Something that performs as well as any of thousands of widely available 28mm primes do on full frame?

I have been looking for months, and I just can't find anything that is well-regarded for a low(ish) price. I'd be fine with spending $250 or so on a decent used wide angle (18mm-20mm). My preference would be a fully manual lens, with an aperture around f2.8. The amount of time I have put into this is ridiculous.

Maybe Samyang will make one some time soon.

Honestly, it is really frustrating. I don't care for zooms as much as primes, and I don't want to have to resort to getting one. It is starting to look like I'm going to have to do that, though. Especially since I remember paying very little for my 28mm primes, which have done a fantastic job. In my opinion, the cost of wide lenses for aps-c might as well be figured into the cost of a photographic system for people who prefer them. That effectively decreases the cost of an aps-c system vs. a full frame system for me.
07-13-2012, 03:46 PM   #3087
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
The difference between FF and 645 is almost just as great as between FF and APS-C so with the same reason 645 mount would also pretty much suit FF... I think that idea would come with a lot more resistance, what do you mean with narrow minded...
Keeping the well-established K-mount (in whatever re-incarnation) is not a technical decision. It is not about the technical limits of registration distances or lens design. It is a simple question of survival for Pentax.

If Pentax abolishes the K-mount the company will loose a large part of what is the most valuable assett to any company: its wealth of loyal long-term customers.

There are some basic rules in marketing which you need to consider, if you want to be a successful competitor on the market. And the single most important one is, to keep your existing customers happy! The reason is simple: making business with existing customers is four times cheaper, than winning new customers. So, if they switch the mount, Pentax would need to invest four times as much money into marketing and sales over their current investment - and that would be only the minimum to keep the poor status quo of the company. Does that sound being a vital option for a company that has been promising a simple AF tele converter for the last 6 years but was not able to deliver?

Leaving behind the K-mount is economical suicide, whatever technical reasons might be lurking in the dark... Just remember Betavision or the Picture Disc! Oh, you don't remember - well, that were fantastic technologies with shining technical advancements and advantages - just, that the majority of buyers did not want it.

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07-13-2012, 03:54 PM   #3088
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I almost just started a new thread about this, but decided not to.

Would anyone like to take a moment to lament the fact that there is no low-cost wide angle prime for aps-c? Something that performs as well as any of thousands of widely available 28mm primes do on full frame?

I have been looking for months, and I just can't find anything that is well-regarded for a low(ish) price. I'd be fine with spending $250 or so on a decent used wide angle (18mm-20mm). My preference would be a fully manual lens, with an aperture around f2.8. The amount of time I have put into this is ridiculous.

Maybe Samyang will make one some time soon.

Honestly, it is really frustrating. I don't care for zooms as much as primes, and I don't want to have to resort to getting one. It is starting to look like I'm going to have to do that, though. Especially since I remember paying very little for my 28mm primes, which have done a fantastic job. In my opinion, the cost of wide lenses for aps-c might as well be figured into the cost of a photographic system for people who prefer them. That effectively decreases the cost of an aps-c system vs. a full frame system for me.
High quality lenses and especially wide angles were never cheap: I just looked at the Pentax K 15/3.5 or the FA 24/2.0 in my cupboard to confirm this (besides 16/2.8 or 20/2.8)
In film days, there was an inflation of brands which sold OEM versions of the most important standard lenses (28mm, 35mm, 135mm). Most were useable, but few offered really high quality. Just that we all did not look at our slides or negs with a 16x loupe, as we do today on a monitor. I bet, if you look at your old film stuff with high enough magnification, you will also detect colour fringing etc. with all the cheaper lenses.

Also, you should simply take into consideration, that on APS-C the focal length of wide angles needs to be much shorter, than for 35mm format. Keeping the quality up and shortening the fl at the same time equates to higher cost. And lastly, the high pixel count of current (and future) APS-C cameras affords very high resolution lenses, in fact much higher, than film needed, to actually use the sensor's capabilities.

Ben
07-13-2012, 05:41 PM   #3089
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It is possible that you are right. However, I have not noticed this being the case in the bast, including a 24" x 36" print I had made from a photo taken with my M28 2.8. However, that was only one photo. Regardless, it is the only experience I have with a really large print from a 28mm lens on film.

I understand that it is technically more difficult to make a quality wide lens for aps-c. That is why I am lamenting. And I never said the old 28mm lenses were the best thing in the world, I simply said I wish there was something available that is analogous for aps-c. Something that would do a similar job to what my M28 2.8 does. As far as I am aware, there is no such lens for under $250. If there is, I would be very glad to hear about it.
07-13-2012, 05:43 PM   #3090
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I will add one thing: if the size of a sensor makes in inherently difficult to produce wide lenses for a system, I personally view that as a drawback to the system.

One more thing: my M series lenses appear to out-resolve my K20D's sensor.
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