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10-21-2011, 11:11 PM   #376
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QuoteOriginally posted by raist3d Quote
you keep doing excellent APS-C models and you are fine. Also Sony cut off the FF model line. So far, not sure if they are going to continue that. This means their core dev goes to APS-C which is incidentally the sensor Pentax uses.

I agree that going FF at least for now, it's a diversion of Pentax resources. I rather have them focus on key things that are different and make them work.

For example- a programmable camera is far more important. Imagine being able to have really wild different "films" made by 3rd parties for the camera. That would be quite unique.

- Raist
I like the idea of a user programmable camera, say one that uses some form of open source linux and can load "apps". Then people could write software to improve functionality.

One thing I don't want are more pointless camera filters. That's a waste of resources and muddles up semi-pro/enthusiast cameras. I'll give them a "oh, that's neat..." and might someday play around with them, but it's just a pointless diversion that can be done with computer software in post. It would kind of funny to see a full-frame camera with "historic sepia" mode or whatever...

10-21-2011, 11:45 PM   #377
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QuoteOriginally posted by raist3d Quote
you keep doing excellent APS-C models and you are fine. Also Sony cut off the FF model line. So far, not sure if they are going to continue that. This means their core dev goes to APS-C which is incidentally the sensor Pentax uses.

I agree that going FF at least for now, it's a diversion of Pentax resources. I rather have them focus on key things that are different and make them work.

For example- a programmable camera is far more important. Imagine being able to have really wild different "films" made by 3rd parties for the camera. That would be quite unique.

- Raist

Sony are releasing at least TWO FF cameras next year, possibly three. So no their core dev / R&D is not APS-C based but would flow downstream.
10-21-2011, 11:51 PM   #378
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Very "official" reply from PENTAX...

Based on current production capacity, I don't think PENTAX is able to carry a burden like "FF system".
10-22-2011, 12:11 AM   #379
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More on Full Frame Market Dilemma for Pentax

I don’t understand all the concern about full frame body size, whether or not shake reduction, whether a K-mount lens will work on a full frame. Seriously?

First: A half century of 35mm cameras have demonstrated that the necessary mechanisms will fit in a body much smaller than just about any current DSLR’s.
Shake Reduction: That’s gotta be what, a quarter inch thick?
LED screens are now paper thin if a little more expensive. The idea of a flipout screen on a pro camera is just silly. That’s for the Walmart crowd.
Processor: Any of the current iPhone, Android, caliber of products have dual processors of way more computational capacity than these petty DSLRs.
The Pentax in-camera lens drive motor obviously hasn’t been a hindrance.
And all these technologies are only getting smaller and more power efficient.
There is absolutely no reason a full frame camera has to be any larger than the current (and perfect) K5, except …Marketing. Mine is BIGGER than yours because I PAID MORE.

As for full frame lenses, if all they did was dust off the CAD files of the already engineered FA series and went back into production using modern coatings, how much could that cost? The hard part is already done. Some folks will complain about the screw drive. Those same folks would complain if you hang em with a new rope.
I like the screw drive, I like the feedback. I find the SDM is so quiet, I question whether it did anything.
They need Zeiss. The quality and the cache. Ricoh needs to patch that relationship and provide some guarantees. If Zeiss can make the reportedly excellent AF zoom for the Sony, they can do it for Pentax. Ricoh will have to make some guarantees to Zeiss.

As they did with the 645D, a lot of work has already done on the K series. It’s not like all these components have to be engineered from scratch. A full frame isn’t that big of a leap.

One more thing, Ricoh Pentax Imaging Corporation should Not put their name on Pentax cameras. Harley Davidson may have benefited technologically from the AMF years but the relationship is not remembered fondly. Singer owned Graflex at one point and made a fine camera but does anyone even remember that?
I don’t want someone coming up to me saying “Oh, I see you bought a PRIC”.


Last edited by MoldyJohn; 10-22-2011 at 12:31 AM. Reason: additional thought
10-22-2011, 02:08 AM   #380
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QuoteOriginally posted by MoldyJohn Quote
One more thing, Ricoh Pentax Imaging Corporation should Not put their name on Pentax cameras
Ricoh won't be changing the branding- they've stated that and it's quite logical.

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10-22-2011, 02:36 AM   #381
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I already own a Pentax full frame slr. It is the Z1-P of course. I just need to fill it up with Fugi transparency film. It works a treat, great shallow depth of field and wonderful out of focus transitions.

Just add a decent scanner and I'm in business.....for a lot less money too of course.

I know it's not quite the same as a dslr, but a reasonable compromise whilst waiting.
10-22-2011, 02:57 AM   #382
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Thanks for your efforts Adam, on composing that letter to Pentax. Although not high on my lists of needs I would happily invest in a fullframe assuming its compatability with my existing lenses for my K10/K7.
I have felt for a number of years, that Pentax's biggest problem has been public exposure of their product. It is severely lacking... well at least in Australia anyway. There are only 2 or 3 retail shops that support the pentax brand (particularly the DSLR range) and 1/2 the time they dont even have the latest models on hand. Yet Nikon and Canon are in your face in virtually any shop that has even a mild interest in photography products.

Tho I would welcome a FF pentax in the body style of a K7/K5 etc, I'm not going to hold my breath. If the project ever went ahead, unfortunately, I doubt that it would be available on the shop shelves any time in the next couple of years.
I suspect in the short term I will be upgrading to a K5 within the next few months

Thanks again
Dave
10-22-2011, 03:15 AM   #383
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although my shooting skills sucks and i have let my brilliant k-5 down...

i am more than willing to purchase a FF pentax as long as,

it is smaller than the competition, has SR, WR and quality of no less than the existing k-5

10-22-2011, 03:16 AM   #384
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QuoteOriginally posted by Foma Quote
Of course it doesn't, it is a Sony camera! It does for Alpha mount AF lenses.
Pentax mirrorless camera should and, I hope, will have such adapter for K mount lenses. My comment is about how it works in principle - "going mirrorless" doesn't mean trashing older lenses.
And for manual focus M42 and K lenses even 5n is a better "digital back" in some ways than Pentax DSLRs - compact end easy to focus. Have you seen those countless reviews of manual Pentax lenses "good glass but difficult to focus on my K-r"?
I actually think that a Pentax full frame mirrorless camera should use the same K mount
10-22-2011, 03:44 AM   #385
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As for me...I think that Ricoh/Pentax has ONLY ONE way to offer FF to get good sales and make camera to be popular...I said it 2 years ago. And I say it now.

Compact FF mirrorless camera with BIG EVF. Maybe on the base of GXR. But better if it would be absolutely new camera.
Maybe with WR, with new mount and with new WR lenses.

To invest money to the classical FF DSLR for K-mount is silly IMO It will be failure for such small company...
Some Pentax fans want to put old lenses to FF K-mount camera. But it's the way to nowhere. No any chances to compete in this niche with C/N/S.

If I were financial director of Ricoh/Pentax, I would never give any penny for such camera.

The company MUST raise money, increase profits by amplification of number of Pentax users....Sell more new lenses and more new products.

Let Pentax make new FF mirrorless camera, new fast limiteds, new WR lenses and new adaptor for K mount.

K-mount will be the mount for amateurs and for APS-C.


Shorter flange focal distance is the BIG benefit. Mirrorless with much shorter FFD than K-mount will develop Pentax photosystem.
20-25 mm will be really good.

Last edited by ogl; 10-22-2011 at 04:03 AM.
10-22-2011, 03:45 AM   #386
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QuoteOriginally posted by BendingPhotography Quote
I actually think that a Pentax full frame mirrorless camera should use the same K mount
Adaptor. It's just plain stupid to use K-mount on mirrorless.
10-22-2011, 03:56 AM   #387
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
As for me...I think that Ricoh/Pentax has ONLY ONE way to offer FF to get good sales and make camera to be popular...I said it 2 years ago. And I say it now.

FF mirrorless with WR with new mount and with new WR lenses.
To invest money to the classical FF DSLR for K-mount is silly IMO

Let Pentax make new fast limiteds and new WR lenses and new AF adaptor for K mount
Nope... not my cup of tea

Its not the only way. Another way is to simply make an FF K-mount camera.
10-22-2011, 04:02 AM   #388
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
Nope... not my cup of tea

Its not the only way. Another way is to simply make an FF K-mount camera.
1) They said about the same about digital and film
2) The FF DSLR is worthless, it's highly unlikely that will expand marketshare.
10-22-2011, 04:11 AM   #389
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Is worthless... just because you want them to make other products? You'll have to come with better reasons than that
ogl, I'm glad you are not a "financial director of Ricoh/Pentax".
10-22-2011, 04:14 AM   #390
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
Nope... not my cup of tea

Another way is to simply make an FF K-mount camera.
Such camera will get lost at the market...To say honest, very few Pentax users and very few new users will buy such camera...It's obvious....
A lot of talks in forums, but the reality will be another.
Ricoh/Pentax will never make FF K-mount DSLR less USD2500.

Pentax has been producing cameras for amateurs for a long time. More pentaxian wait for the new APS-C cameras with prices lower USD1500...Not FF.
As for FF - it could be interesting if they make it as I wrote before. With price just a bit higher than USD2000, for example. IMO.

Classical FF DSLR with price USD2500-3000 won't have any success at all.

It's my opinion.
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