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10-30-2011, 03:04 AM   #721
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Good lord you're a snob."Properly accredited judges" can also mean"self-appointed" in some "clubs" I have experienced.
Then they're not properly accredited, are they? Try a decent club. And for someone with a helluva a lot to say (1,662 posts) be careful how you toss words like "superiority overtones" around.

Thanks, stanleyk, for some words of sense at last.

Anyway, back to the topic. Perhaps whoever launched this will soon follow up with a letter to Pentax asking if they intend taking the views of the tortured minds on this forum into account. What bothers me is that those of us who are more interested in the art of photography will be picking up the tab for those who are on a constant quest for more and more technology at higher and higher expense. Yes I want decent glass, a decent sensor, pentaprism, decent metering and quality build without adding bulk or weight. But I'm pretty satisfied with what's there thanks. Ergonomic tweaks, yes; and new glass please - a fast-ish 24~80 equiv would be nice.

10-30-2011, 03:14 AM   #722
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For some reason, the link to their response on Adam's OP just takes me back to the forum homepage, so not sure whether the link has been removed but cant read the letter regardless, and I certainly cant be bothered looking back through nearly 50 pages of thread.


Anyway, I hope they do bring in FF soonish.
Ive been having a ball on APS-C, but same time, you cant underestimate the value of a more pro level option using the K mount and how this might affect APS-C owners & purchasers generally, and I am attempting to be able to use my Pentax glass in a more professional sense related to my line of business.
Some of the improvement points noted/requested would help also - the devil is in the detail as they say.
10-30-2011, 06:43 AM   #723
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I hope Pentax/Ricoh makes a FF camera! Man, I'm a bit tired with APS-C. In order for me to make photos using full frame, I use a Pentax film SLR. It's nice to use film, but it's costly and takes time to see and process and print those photographs. When I complain that Pentax should make FF DLSR, others say "get a Canon or Nikon FF camera", but my point is I want to have a digital FF camera made by Pentax and use my recent lenses on it.
10-30-2011, 07:18 AM   #724
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QuoteOriginally posted by unfocused Quote



Anyway, back to the topic. Perhaps whoever launched this

That would be the owner of this site, which you're using, for free.

QuoteQuote:
...will soon follow up with a letter to Pentax asking if they intend taking the views of the tortured minds on this forum into account. What bothers me is that those of us who are more interested in the art of photography will be picking up the tab for those who are on a constant quest for more and more technology at higher and higher expense.

If you're worried about expense and the effect it will have on your art, you always have the option of picking up a used K-x and just shooting with that. A lot of IQ and capability in that inexpensive package, and you can shoot in a cocoon of artful bliss, impervious to the technological demands of the artless, tech-tortured rabble who refuse to acknowledge your photo-club Royal-Academy chops.


.

10-30-2011, 08:55 AM   #725
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Time frame?

Let's assume it gets taken before the R&D/budget board. Let us then assume that they agree that it would be a good idea, and the R&D board creates a FF R&D team for the project. It would also be reasonable to assume that it will be a weather sealed body similar to Canon's EOS 5D Mark II, based on previous models. Following said development of therein specified product, it would have to be submitted to the production team to make a sample for testing. Following that, assuming it is right the first time, it will have to be resubmitted to the budget board to decide if it is cheap enough to make and sell for a profit without being unreasonable. Then it is resubmitted to production for mass-production. The following year, it should make it from PENTAX JAPAN to PENTAX USA, again based on previous models.

I am aware that some steps are out of order.

I don't hope for anything before 2015 at best. Probably 2017, which was my prediction before this correspondence occurred.

I hope someone can prove me wrong for the better. Any ideas?
10-30-2011, 09:23 AM   #726
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QuoteOriginally posted by ShutterBug60 Quote
Let's assume it gets taken before the R&D/budget board. Let us then assume that they agree that it would be a good idea, and the R&D board creates a FF R&D team for the project. It would also be reasonable to assume that it will be a weather sealed body similar to Canon's EOS 5D Mark II, based on previous models. Following said development of therein specified product, it would have to be submitted to the production team to make a sample for testing. Following that, assuming it is right the first time, it will have to be resubmitted to the budget board to decide if it is cheap enough to make and sell for a profit without being unreasonable. Then it is resubmitted to production for mass-production. The following year, it should make it from PENTAX JAPAN to PENTAX USA, again based on previous models.

I am aware that some steps are out of order.

I don't hope for anything before 2015 at best. Probably 2017, which was my prediction before this correspondence occurred.

I hope someone can prove me wrong for the better. Any ideas?
In 2017 DSLR will be a niche product, just like film SLRs or rangefinders today. There are some researches today, that will lead in the very near future the sensor-based autofocus to the level that is just not achievable with PDAF both in terms of accuracy and speed.
DSLRs are DEAD. I'm very glad to pronounce this with full confidence.

Last edited by Emacs; 10-30-2011 at 09:33 AM.
10-30-2011, 09:34 AM   #727
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
In 2017 DSLR will be a niche product, just like film SLRs or rangefinders today.
FF DSLRs already are niche products.

edit: of relevance is whether they are a sustainable niche.
10-30-2011, 09:44 AM   #728
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
DSLRs are DEAD. I'm very glad to pronounce this with full confidence.
Yes, you are both glad and confident - but that doesn't mean it isn't just wishful thinking
I don't understand though why DLSRs disappearing makes you glad.

10-30-2011, 09:53 AM   #729
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
DSLRs are DEAD. I'm very glad to pronounce this with full confidence.
I simply believe that you are being a snob, or for some reason you don't like DSLRs.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yes, you are both glad and confident - but that doesn't mean it isn't just wishful thinking
I don't understand though why DLSRs disappearing makes you glad.
+1.

--DragonLord

Last edited by bwDraco; 10-30-2011 at 10:07 AM.
10-30-2011, 02:11 PM   #730
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
That would be the owner of this site, which you're using, for free.




If you're worried about expense and the effect it will have on your art, you always have the option of picking up a used K-x and just shooting with that. A lot of IQ and capability in that inexpensive package, and you can shoot in a cocoon of artful bliss, impervious to the technological demands of the artless, tech-tortured rabble who refuse to acknowledge your photo-club Royal-Academy chops.


.
Jeepers! 5,552 posts... Maybe I should have been standing to attention for that broadside.

Let's also give credit to the owner of Pentaxeros.com for this initiative.

The expense of course makes photography less affordable. If, as you say, the K-x has "a lot of IQ and capability" why keep pushing for more and more technologuy and more and more expense? My K-7 has more than enough capability for my fairly demanding needs and I'm actually very happy. I don't need people constantly telling me I gotta have a better this or a faster that, which has to be paid for in higher prices.

If some of the posters on this thread were transported back to the film era, would they be complaining about the inadequacy of their Leica M6 or Pentax LX, or whingeing that Kodachrome 25 was too slow, GAF500 too grainy, or Velvia too vibrant?


What's wrong with enjoying what we've got? Stop talking Pentax down and the opposition up.
10-30-2011, 02:36 PM - 3 Likes   #731
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QuoteOriginally posted by unfocused Quote
Jeepers! 5,552 posts... Maybe I should have been standing to attention for that broadside.

Let's also give credit to the owner of Pentaxeros.com for this initiative.

The expense of course makes photography less affordable. If, as you say, the K-x has "a lot of IQ and capability" why keep pushing for more and more technologuy and more and more expense? My K-7 has more than enough capability for my fairly demanding needs and I'm actually very happy. I don't need people constantly telling me I gotta have a better this or a faster that, which has to be paid for in higher prices.

If some of the posters on this thread were transported back to the film era, would they be complaining about the inadequacy of their Leica M6 or Pentax LX, or whingeing that Kodachrome 25 was too slow, GAF500 too grainy, or Velvia too vibrant?


What's wrong with enjoying what we've got? Stop talking Pentax down and the opposition up.
I don't think anyone is arguing that your K-7 is a bad camera or that you need this or that in order to take photos. Jay's suggestion for buying a K-x as a compromise between price and quality does not diminish that camera in any way. That camera is entirely sufficient for most things -- more than sufficient for others. A person could be perfectly happy pursuing his art with modest gear.

But that's not really the point of the thread. You are latching on unnecessarily to the idea that people are blaming the shortcomings in the tech they're using for their own lack of skill and imagination. There will always be an element of that, along with gear lust, sure. I think for most of us it's just the simple desire to use even better stuff than we have now.

Is that unreasonable? I suppose you could spend your entire life taking photos with ISO 25 film on an old fully manual camera. But before you preach the virtue of such austerity, you should probably ask yourself why you own a K-7 if yester-century's technology was good enough all along.

Your K-7 exists because there has always been and always will be demand for increasingly sophisticated products. That demand drives the product cycle. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you you need to go buy a 3500USD camera body just because it may one day exist. The entire argument for a Pentax FF, whether or not one agrees with the premise, is that a high end tool like that a) gives people an upgrade path b) gives the brand prestige that helps increase its market share overall, ensuring the company is around when you need it, and c) that the technology developed for the highest end tools absolutely DOES trickle down to consumer models over time. Whether you lust after each and every iterative release, buying each successor to your K-7 in turn really isn't the point. One day you will look at your aging K-7, and then you will look at the cameras that 2 or 3 (or 4?) generations of improvement have produced, and the value of the additional features and performance will convince you to hand over some money for the upgrade. Your K-7 will be still be plugging along, as competent as it ever was, but why wouldn't you want the choice of eventually buying a vastly superior tool down the road?

You can always say no to something you don't need. You can't say yes to something that doesn't exist.
10-30-2011, 02:47 PM   #732
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QuoteOriginally posted by v5planet Quote
You can always say no to something you don't need. You can't say yes to something that doesn't exist.
DING DING DING! winner!

No matter what their next step is, whether it is simply another APS-C upgrade or diving into the FF market, as long as the upgrade is significant enough from their current models it will provide a viable upgrade path for: - Most if they just upgrade their APS-C. - All if they develop a FF body (PK mount) along with their APS-C.
10-30-2011, 02:47 PM - 4 Likes   #733
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
In 2017 DSLR will be a niche product, just like film SLRs or rangefinders today. There are some researches today, that will lead in the very near future the sensor-based autofocus to the level that is just not achievable with PDAF both in terms of accuracy and speed.
DSLRs are DEAD. I'm very glad to pronounce this with full confidence.
Dead, currently? No. Definitely alive.

Aging and with numbered days? Now that's a reasonable assertion.

Until the tools that will replace them have matured, DSLRs will have a market.

Alternatively we could stick grandma in the ground when she turns 65 just because she'll probably be dead when she turns 70.
10-30-2011, 02:51 PM   #734
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QuoteOriginally posted by v5planet Quote
Alternatively we could stick grandma in the ground when she turns 65 just because she'll probably be dead when she turns 70.
Best quote in the thread!
10-30-2011, 03:05 PM   #735
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QuoteOriginally posted by TOUGEFC Quote
Best quote in the thread!
+1!!!!
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