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11-06-2011, 08:49 PM   #946
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Winder-

The Olympus 45 and 12 are as good as advertised. 95% of what most people do photographically can be done just as well with a MFT camera. I love camera gear so that's why I buy and sell stuff. It's basically just a hobby for me although I have been paid from time to time. I will not do weddings because those folks can be psycho to deal with. But if you are just wanting to take some great pictures and enjoy photography, you can't go wrong with Panasonic or Olympus. Really great cameras and they are making some great lenses for them now. Personally I wish Pentax had done something along those lines that could have built on their strength with small very good primes lenses. With Ricoh in charge who knows. They really think outside the box. But in a good way, the GXR and GRD are fantastic cameras.

11-06-2011, 08:58 PM   #947
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Winder-

The Olympus 45 and 12 are as good as advertised. 95% of what most people do photographically can be done just as well with a MFT camera. I love camera gear so that's why I buy and sell stuff. It's basically just a hobby for me although I have been paid from time to time. I will not do weddings because those folks can be psycho to deal with. But if you are just wanting to take some great pictures and enjoy photography, you can't go wrong with Panasonic or Olympus. Really great cameras and they are making some great lenses for them now. Personally I wish Pentax had done something along those lines that could have built on their strength with small very good primes lenses. With Ricoh in charge who knows. They really think outside the box. But in a good way, the GXR and GRD are fantastic cameras.
I had and E-3 (14-35 and 35-100) for a few years. When I saw the writing on the wall for 4/3rds I sold them. Really good system. Great lenses. I was pretty pissed at Olympus for never producing a 45mm f/1.4 and 73mm f/1.4 for the original 4/3 system. Me being bitter has kept me from buying an E-P3 and 45mm f/1.8.

I am also interested in what Fuji plans on bringing out. A new "pro" EVIL body with a sensor that is at least a big as APS-C and maybe bigger. Fuji also makes some really good glass.
11-06-2011, 10:41 PM   #948
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Supposedly Olympus is bringing out their Pro m4/3 this winter. Once they do that...kiss regular 4/3 goodbye. Its sad because I shoot Oly as much as I shoot Pentax and I love their e-mount lenses. Glad I'm not super invested in the regular e-mount. Nothing an adapter can't fix.

The world of photography is at another paradigm shift. In 5 years, I doubt anyone but Canon/Nikon will have anything with a mirror and that will only be a select few people. As much as it sadden me, I firmly believe it. The EVF on the sony a77 is incredible and EVFs are only going to get better (I know that the a77 has a sorta-mirror). Frankly, I might be switching to Sony when I upgrade from my k200d. I'll still shoot Pentax but unless I see Ricoh invest some serious R&D into Pentax and produce some truly compelling products...........

I guess I'm just worried that Ricoh is going to piss the legacy and brilliance of the Pentax system away and when I upgrade I want to make sure that my system will be supported long into the future. A full-frame would go a long way toward convincing me that Ricoh is serious about Pentax. We'll just have to see what happens this winter.
11-06-2011, 10:53 PM   #949
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until a camera's sensor and lcd screen can match the dynmaic range of the human eye i dont want to go near them - sure some people like the wysiwyg of cd screens but i'd rather see whats there and then work on getting the camera to do the same in the photo

11-07-2011, 01:02 AM   #950
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QuoteOriginally posted by stormcloud Quote
until a camera's sensor and lcd screen can match the dynmaic range of the human eye i dont want to go near them - sure some people like the wysiwyg of cd screens but i'd rather see whats there and then work on getting the camera to do the same in the photo
Strange reason. You better to watch how it was in reality without any tiny dark cropped viewfinder, just with your eyes
11-07-2011, 01:36 AM   #951
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
Supposedly Olympus is bringing out their Pro m4/3 this winter. Once they do that...kiss regular 4/3 goodbye. Its sad because I shoot Oly as much as I shoot Pentax and I love their e-mount lenses. Glad I'm not super invested in the regular e-mount. Nothing an adapter can't fix.
Well we first have to see that Olympus will survive, since I do see them going out of bussiness.
11-07-2011, 04:07 AM   #952
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Ricoh/Pentax FF will be close to end of 2012....Somebody whispered in my ear...
11-07-2011, 04:07 AM   #953
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How many lenses did Pentax have in their current lineup when they released a $10,000 body?

11-07-2011, 04:15 AM   #954
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
How many lenses did Pentax have in their current lineup when they released a $10,000 body?
14 lenses now ( it was 12 lenses before 645D)

http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151515/ - 2
http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151520/ - 2
http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151530/ - 2
http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151540/ - 3
http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151535/ - 2
http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151525/ - 1
http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151545/ - 1
http://shop.pentax.jp/c/c151550/ - 1

Last edited by ogl; 11-07-2011 at 04:20 AM.
11-07-2011, 04:39 AM   #955
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Ricoh/Pentax FF will be close to end of 2012....Somebody whispered in my ear...
Even though I'm not really interested in it, I view that as good news. It certainly would indicate that Ricoh is going to be more than just a caretaker of Pentax, that they will aggressively push Pentax in new directions (and hopefully bring out some sweet lenses along the way).
11-07-2011, 04:48 AM   #956
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Ricoh/Pentax FF will be close to end of 2012....Somebody whispered in my ear...
Hope it will be the last DSLR of 35 format from Pentax. It will be an excellent plug for my FF lenses and the final word for their lens and 35 SLR lineup.
I need something much smaller (lenses and body) without the lose of IQ.
11-07-2011, 04:50 AM   #957
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I had and E-3 (14-35 and 35-100) for a few years. When I saw the writing on the wall for 4/3rds I sold them. Really good system. Great lenses. I was pretty pissed at Olympus for never producing a 45mm f/1.4 and 73mm f/1.4 for the original 4/3 system. Me being bitter has kept me from buying an E-P3 and 45mm f/1.8.

I am also interested in what Fuji plans on bringing out. A new "pro" EVIL body with a sensor that is at least a big as APS-C and maybe bigger. Fuji also makes some really good glass.
Depending on the price I will definitely be getting the new Fuji. The X100 is a marvelous camera. It just takes great pictures. That's probably when my Pentax gear will go on the market if I'm happy with the Nikon. To be honest, I really haven't used the Pentax much since I got the X100/GXR. The Nikon is for a specific purpose which it's better for than the K5. For my enjoyment I use the X100/GXR because the only focal lengths I really like are 28, 35, and 50.

I'm anxiously awaiting the new Fuji!
11-07-2011, 09:10 AM - 1 Like   #958
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
The world of photography is at another paradigm shift. In 5 years, I doubt anyone but Canon/Nikon will have anything with a mirror and that will only be a select few people.
Just because a technology is new doesn't make it better or more compelling. Digital trounced film because it proved far more compelling to the majority of photographers. In what way is mirrorless cameras far more compelling than cameras with mirrors? Most people serious about photography will gravitate to whatever systems are favored by professionals; and that's likely to APS-C and/or FF DSLRs for some time to come. Are we really going to see the majority of professionals exchanging their DSLRs for mirrorless cameras? Are we going to find wedding and sports photographers toting around mirrorless cameras attached to their heavy f2.8 zooms? Indeed, even the cheap telephoto zooms that I see on so many entry level DSLRs aren't very compelling when attached to these mirrorless bodies. Mirrorless are most compelling when used with pancake primes. Then they make excellent secondary cameras for those who have invested in the big, heavy FF systems and need, from time to time, a lightweight alternative. But as a primary camera? I doubt very many serious photographers will want to use mirrorless systems as their primary cameras. When attached to all but the smallest zoom lenses, these mirrorless cameras are ergonomically not very compelling. And since most photographers, whether beginner or advanced, prefer zooms, it's not clear at all that any kind of paradigm shift is under way. If you want people to give up what they already have (and many have invested huge amounts of money into their DSLR systems), you need something more compelling than an ergonomically-challenged system without the OVF prefered by most serious photographers. Digital allowed photographers to produce results superior in most respects to film much more easily. What comparable advantage would mirrorless give photographers?
11-07-2011, 10:40 AM   #959
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Just because a technology is new doesn't make it better or more compelling. Digital trounced film because it proved far more compelling to the majority of photographers. In what way is mirrorless cameras far more compelling than cameras with mirrors? Most people serious about photography will gravitate to whatever systems are favored by professionals; and that's likely to APS-C and/or FF DSLRs for some time to come. Are we really going to see the majority of professionals exchanging their DSLRs for mirrorless cameras? Are we going to find wedding and sports photographers toting around mirrorless cameras attached to their heavy f2.8 zooms? Indeed, even the cheap telephoto zooms that I see on so many entry level DSLRs aren't very compelling when attached to these mirrorless bodies. Mirrorless are most compelling when used with pancake primes. Then they make excellent secondary cameras for those who have invested in the big, heavy FF systems and need, from time to time, a lightweight alternative. But as a primary camera? I doubt very many serious photographers will want to use mirrorless systems as their primary cameras. When attached to all but the smallest zoom lenses, these mirrorless cameras are ergonomically not very compelling. And since most photographers, whether beginner or advanced, prefer zooms, it's not clear at all that any kind of paradigm shift is under way. If you want people to give up what they already have (and many have invested huge amounts of money into their DSLR systems), you need something more compelling than an ergonomically-challenged system without the OVF prefered by most serious photographers. Digital allowed photographers to produce results superior in most respects to film much more easily. What comparable advantage would mirrorless give photographers?
When mirrorless exceeds the current OVF technology in terms of AF speed/accuracy and frame rates we will see sports and wildlife shoots move to mirrorless. There are technical limitations to the speed and durability of the mirror and mechanical shutter. AF consistency of PDAF systems is not as good as mirrorless. There is not front focus or back focus issues with a mirrorless system. There is no focus shift. CDAF will continue to evolve and predictive AF will surpass PDAF.

Mirrorless does have hurdles to overcome, but the potential for for the technology is pretty big. We are really only on the second generation of EVIL cameras.
11-07-2011, 11:48 AM   #960
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While I agree Mirrorless has huge potential in these areas if they can get the tech there I think you underestimate how people get tied to a traditional ideal. If improvement in the tech enabling smaller easier to operate cameras was the only factor Large format/Medium Format and rangefinders would all have been gone by the 80's at the latest (and some before that)
People are in general change resistant so OVF will likely continue to be a powerhouse for some time to come

Also ergonomics have a lot to do with it as pointed out previously most people shoot only zooms and even low end zooms make Evil less than nice ergonomically (particularly when you move to say an apsc sensor like the Sony with it's ridiculous large lenses. And i imagine it would be even worse on Full frame given the size of the lenses. As a secondary system with nice compact fast primes on the other hand it has a ton of potential (but it needs much better EVF than current tech) shooting with a rear LCD is the least friendly thing i've done and it's near impossible to control movement unlike a classic OVF method. the only thing i've tried this way that was acceptable to some degree was a setup with a hoodman for shooting video. So much for small. I could really see using something with a more classic size and design with a high quality fast EVF that is twice the size of a FF OVF though for video and manual focus (with better peaking tech than now and the ability to zoom in of course)
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