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11-08-2011, 09:01 AM   #1006
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrPetkus Quote
Pentax can't release any camera without video at this point - FF or otherwise. It is a major feature sought after by many and consumers are more versed in video specs seeking 60p, etc. Also, Pentax can't turn their backs on current and potential videographers. Tons of 5DM2s have been sold whose primary purpose weren't stills.
In fact, for those who really want a Pentax FF (I'm more an APS-C guy) it would probably be wise to clamor for class-leading advanced video functionality, too - expose the camera to a wider audience.
I doubt HD Video is a major factor for Pentax. Screw drive lenses are noisy and not acceptable for HD video work unless you have an off camera mic and audio. If I was going the HD video route I would buy a GH-2. IT is hard to have one camera setup to do HD video the right way and still use it for stills. You need a dedicated body for HD video.

I would go the opposite route and design a camera that appeals to the still image purest. I think I have used HD Video in my K-7 twice just to see what it does.

11-08-2011, 09:04 AM   #1007
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The Sensor division these come from (ISS) was also sold just after the announcement. this is the division that makes most of the medium format sensors (including the 645D) and the M9 and S2 sensors for leica.

Kodak sells image sensor operation | Democrat and Chronicle | democratandchronicle.com

the positive is the Equity firm seems to want to provide the tools to make ISS survive as a Class leader in the tech
11-08-2011, 09:08 AM   #1008
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So who is laughing now? Here is at least my APS-H sensor. Now we only need a camera to carry it. Maybe my idea of putting two sensors in one camerahousing to make two different new camera's at the same time is still possible, only just one is APS-H and the other is Full Frame?

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I don't understand why you keep repeating this:

First: Who's going to make that sensor now that Canon killed APS-H?
Second: The difference is so small! APS-C represents a 1.18 crop of APS-H!

Given the small interest in manufacturing such a sensor and the small size difference, it's reasonable to think that such a sensor would be (1) not better than the K-5 sensor, perhaps worse, and (2) extremely expensive.
I do wonder how those sensors performe. I have no idea about the difference between CCD and Cmos according to hi-iso (iso 3200 to iso 6400) performance.

When I look at that kodak sensor, then that is a small sensor I think (only 27x18mm). Only thing mentioned is the size of pixels. These are 34 % bigger then the pixels on K-5 for the APS-H sensor. For the full size sensor it is 142 % bigger pixels.

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Hmmm..apparently the pronouncements of death for APS-H sensors were off target.


QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
APS-H is designed specifically for use with 35mm lenses. Most likely it would be for higher end cameras and not "consumer" grade.
Let's see where this goes.


On the other hand I would prefer a camera capable of video. On the other hand, for that function I can keep one of the K-5's. The mentioned 8 fps is good enough, since this number was on my wishlist.
11-08-2011, 09:08 AM   #1009
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I doubt HD Video is a major factor for Pentax. Screw drive lenses are noisy and not acceptable for HD video work unless you have an off camera mic and audio. If I was going the HD video route I would buy a GH-2. IT is hard to have one camera setup to do HD video the right way and still use it for stills. You need a dedicated body for HD video.

I would go the opposite route and design a camera that appeals to the still image purest. I think I have used HD Video in my K-7 twice just to see what it does.
I've used the HD on mine maybe 6-8 times total and it's OK. Definitely i'd be more inclined to use it with better controls but no video is not a deal breaker for me

11-08-2011, 09:09 AM   #1010
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I doubt HD Video is a major factor for Pentax.
It may not be, but he's 100% correct about the number of 5DM2s that are being used for video. It's a significant part of that camera's market and appeal. We had some head shots done recently and the photographer we hired was shooting a 5DM2. We talked for a while after the shoot about the differences between stills and video. He was considering expanding into video because of the capabilities of his camera.


QuoteQuote:
I would go the opposite route and design a camera that appeals to the still image purest.
I keep thinking that this might be what Pentax ends up doing. Just leave the top end to Nikon and Canon...and come out with a basic camera with the highest IQ available this side of MF. It's not a camera I would buy, but it would be in keeping with Pentax cameras of the past.
11-08-2011, 09:12 AM   #1011
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I don't understand why you keep repeating this:

First: Who's going to make that sensor now that Canon killed APS-H?
Second: The difference is so small! APS-C represents a 1.18 crop of APS-H!

Given the small interest in manufacturing such a sensor and the small size difference, it's reasonable to think that such a sensor would be (1) not better than the K-5 sensor, perhaps worse, and (2) extremely expensive.
Leica is still using APS-H. The difference may seem small but when you are talking about photosites that are measured in microns the difference is pretty big. APS-H is also the best compromise for people looking to use legacy glass. APS-H did not magically appear at that size for no reason. Both Canon and Leica decided to use it because of the cost and legacy glass. Canon has redesigned almost all of their "L" glass since then and now the FF is no longer an issue. I think the 135L and 24-70L are the only two film era "L" lenses that have not been redesigned, but they both work pretty well on FF.

If Pentax moves to an APS-H for the K-5 replacement it gives them an instant advantage over the the competition who is using APS-C.
11-08-2011, 09:24 AM   #1012
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
It may not be, but he's 100% correct about the number of 5DM2s that are being used for video. It's a significant part of that camera's market and appeal. We had some head shots done recently and the photographer we hired was shooting a 5DM2. We talked for a while after the shoot about the differences between stills and video. He was considering expanding into video because of the capabilities of his camera.




I keep thinking that this might be what Pentax ends up doing. Just leave the top end to Nikon and Canon...and come out with a basic camera with the highest IQ available this side of MF. It's not a camera I would buy, but it would be in keeping with Pentax cameras of the past.
I think Pentax should design a GH-2 competitor. A camera that is really targeted towards the HD Video crowd and has good still capabilities. If I was going to really get into HD Video I would buy a specialized rig and set it up for HD. HD usually means a second shooter and a specialist. Someone is still capturing stills. I would team up with someone who really knows HD Video. Let them specialize in HD and I would specialize in stills.

I am still no where near where I want to be in LR/PS, so I can not imagine trying to master HD video editing and getting professional results with sound and HD Video.
11-08-2011, 09:28 AM   #1013
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By the way, 16 MP FF CCD with 8 fps and 16 MP APS-H with 8 fps are not for Leica. It's somebody's order. IMO. No need to develop sensors for nobody. BUT...Who is the customer?


Last edited by ogl; 11-08-2011 at 09:33 AM.
11-08-2011, 09:29 AM   #1014
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Leica is still using APS-H.
Right. I wasn't aware they were still making the M8 models.

Anyway, a full format (or APS-H) camera without video is going to be a stillborn.
11-08-2011, 09:31 AM   #1015
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrPetkus Quote
Pentax can't release any camera without video at this point - FF or otherwise. It is a major feature sought after by many and consumers are more versed in video specs seeking 60p, etc. Also, Pentax can't turn their backs on current and potential videographers. Tons of 5DM2s have been sold whose primary purpose weren't stills. In fact, for those who really want a Pentax FF (I'm more an APS-C guy) it would probably be wise to clamor for class-leading advanced video functionality, too - expose the camera to a wider audience.
There are numerous locations where video is prohibited but stills are allowed, sporting events come to mind. Though I am not a press photographer, I understand that in some venues security will not allow video-capable cameras through the gates, so photographers are stuck using older models like the 1Ds mkIII, or something like the 645D or S2 which are hardly ideal for capturing fast action. I'm not saying that they shouldn't offer video down the line in a FF CMOS, but this Kodak sensor solves a LOT of problems of Pentax releasing a FF, not the least of which is cost.

If you read up on this sensor, it's amazing, the IQ is going to be through the roof. The pixels are 65% larger than the K-5's which means much more light gathering, and detail resolving capability, diffraction won't even set in until f/32. In addition to monochrome, and Bayer color (RGB), it has an option for a WRGB pattern that Kodak calls Truesense, that means more bits per pixel. It also has an option for dual-gain sampling, so the sensor will retain full detail in the brightest of highlights. If Kodak's figures are to be believed, the DR or such a sensor would be about 19 stops, that's not a typeo, that's a one followed by a nine!

Last edited by maxfield_photo; 11-08-2011 at 10:09 AM.
11-08-2011, 09:36 AM   #1016
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Right. I wasn't aware they were still making the M8 models.

Anyway, a full format (or APS-H) camera without video is going to be a stillborn.
M8 is out of production. Maybe Leica decided to make RF camera with 16 MP APS-H sensor cheaper than M9. For Leica's fans who can't buy M9.
But...8 fps...
11-08-2011, 09:38 AM   #1017
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that was the thing that grabbed me the 4 colour sensor
the other was of course the monochrome sensor. A GXR module with an apsh or ff monochrome sensor would definitely fill a gap in the market (and a lot of people have bough Ricoh for their b/w performance on previous cameras). maybe a 2nd m module available in b/w since the RF crowd are big b/w shooters to begin with.
11-08-2011, 09:38 AM   #1018
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
M8 is out of production. Maybe Leica decided to make RF camera with 16 MP APS-H sensor cheaper than M9. For Leica's fans who can't buy M9.
But...8 fps...
Leica is supposed to have a new ilc camera in the works, this might be it, along with m9 mk2 with the new truesense ff sensor
11-08-2011, 09:41 AM   #1019
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The main question = who is the customer?
11-08-2011, 09:42 AM   #1020
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Leica is supposed to have a new ilc camera in the works, this might be it, along with m9 mk2 with the new truesense ff sensor
Mirrorless? You mean...
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