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11-08-2011, 02:43 PM   #1051
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Production, yes. Marketing, APS-H doesn't even get out of the gate.
Then I guess the Canon 1D series and the Leica M8 have been failures. There are a lot Canon people that are unhappy that APS-H is going away. The bird/wildlife & sports shooters have been very happy with the extra crop factor.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
We've seen the format vs. price battle before. 4/3 vs. APS-C. The smaller 4/3 went nowhere until repackaged without the mirror, effectively abandoning Olympus customers.
So APS-C is better than 4/3 because it has a bigger sensor, but APS-H is not better than APS-C? That argument does not work. APS-H is better than APS-C for all the same reasons APS-C is better than 4/3. Since Pentax would be going to a larger sensor and all of its legacy glass would still work (the mount does not change) the analogy to Olympus and 4/3 is not relevant. Olympus changed mounts and abandoned the system. Pentax moving to APS-H for its "Pro" body would not be anything like what Olympus did. The K-r line could remain APS-C and maybe even the K-5 line. But a K-1 line could move to APS-H and there would be some obvious benefits.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
What is Pentax going to do? Support the current APS-C DSLR optics, retain their folio of FF optics, add in the 645D and Q optics, and add a new APS-H line of optics? Do you really think the Tamron's, Sigma's, and Zeiss's will support an APS-H dedicated Pentax mount?
No. APS-H is a dog that won't hunt.
You do realize that Sigma, Tamron, & Zeiss glass all work on the Canon 1D APS-H right?

11-08-2011, 05:09 PM   #1052
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1000 posts in 3 weeks

wow

this thread is spinning fast.

when was the last time a FF thread was so actively discussed?
11-08-2011, 05:12 PM   #1053
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
i see the signs of 2012 become the year of full frame thickening.



Photokina 2012 will mark the split of the market into apsc mirrorless amateur and ff slr enthusiast/professional. Imho
+1


.
11-08-2011, 05:36 PM   #1054
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
- as a promotional gimmick an episode of house was shot on a 5d but then they reverted to how they usually shoot)
This just isn't true. 5DM2s are used in commercials, documentaries, a whole slew of broadcast TV applications, and even major motion pictures as a "disposable" tool for extreme shots (but shots nevertheless part of the film).
Local news on LI uses them as well.

11-08-2011, 05:51 PM   #1055
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
So APS-C is better than 4/3 because it has a bigger sensor, but APS-H is not better than APS-C?
This is generally true but, to a certain extent, it depends on technology and the sensors in question. Which company and how many resources are being put into what size sensor? The 16Mp Sony Exmor APS-C exceeds the DR of the 16Mp Canon APS-H and comes really close to matching ISO performance. In 2 years APS-C sensors may trump today's FF in every respect. Similarly, the 4/3 processors today are better than the APS-C of 3-4 years ago.

But assuming all sensor sizes were progressing at the same rate and by the same company, then sure, bigger will be better.
11-08-2011, 07:00 PM   #1056
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The new Kodak sensors ( rather that holding company's...) seem pretty interesting at least. Back when cameras like the D700 that are video-less were fresh, I thought it would be a good idea for Pentax to use one of the Kodak sensors, but now I'd suspect the big players will replace their entry level full-frame with ones that are capable of video. So now, I think Pentax would have a difficult time selling with a Kodak CCD. However, the properties of that Kodak FF sensor seem like they have the possibility to be really impressive. I'll say they could manage if it blows away stills from other cameras along with Pentax styled features. I've gotten to the point that I'd much prefer a Pentax FF with video capability, but I'd still seriously consider a Kodak CCD powered one if it has top notch qualities. It's a fine line though and I would expect that Pentax style ala. K-7/K-5 with expected improvements to subsystems.
11-08-2011, 07:31 PM   #1057
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrPetkus Quote
This is generally true but, to a certain extent, it depends on technology and the sensors in question. Which company and how many resources are being put into what size sensor? The 16Mp Sony Exmor APS-C exceeds the DR of the 16Mp Canon APS-H and comes really close to matching ISO performance. In 2 years APS-C sensors may trump today's FF in every respect. Similarly, the 4/3 processors today are better than the APS-C of 3-4 years ago.

But assuming all sensor sizes were progressing at the same rate and by the same company, then sure, bigger will be better.
Bigger is definitely better, but unless we're a pro like some of the fellas here, do we really need the big sensors?

A digicam, like K-5, for instance, meets all my needs, lowlight, daylight, whatnot.
For video, I use dedicated camcorder, mirrorless & no problem with overheating.

The next cam better blow my socks off to warrant the $2500 price tag?
11-08-2011, 07:37 PM   #1058
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrPetkus Quote
This is generally true but, to a certain extent, it depends on technology and the sensors in question. Which company and how many resources are being put into what size sensor? The 16Mp Sony Exmor APS-C exceeds the DR of the 16Mp Canon APS-H and comes really close to matching ISO performance. In 2 years APS-C sensors may trump today's FF in every respect. Similarly, the 4/3 processors today are better than the APS-C of 3-4 years ago.

But assuming all sensor sizes were progressing at the same rate and by the same company, then sure, bigger will be better.
You can not compare the top APS-C of today with a 2 year old APS-H. Why not compare the 1DIV with the K-7 since they were released about the same time. You are right in that size is not the most important thing, but everything else being equal the bigger sensor wins.

M4/3 has not really improved much. That has been its biggest problem with the system. The 12MP m4/3 sensor is on par with my K-7. The GH-1 sensor was actually within 1/2 a stop of the Canon 7D. As Panasonic optimized for HD video in the GH-2 they gave up some of that high ISO. BSI sensors will probably make their way up to m4/3 and when that happens they will be able to exceed most APS-C sensors if not all. BSI's run hot and the bigger the sensor the more heat they have to deal with. We could see smaller sensors using this technology exceed larger sensor that can not use the technology.

My Canon 5D is 6+ years old and still holds its own against the best APS-C sensors.

11-08-2011, 07:46 PM   #1059
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
The Leica M8 and M9 are mirrorless and without Live View and video.
It's DIGITAL RANGEFINDER. Feel difference.
11-08-2011, 08:01 PM   #1060
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If Pentax does finally develop a full-frame system, would it... somehow pull the K-5's (or the Pentax enthusiast-level cams) price down?
11-08-2011, 08:08 PM   #1061
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
There is nothing magical about 135mm format.
The format fits the image circle produced by my FA 77/1.8 and is the best for almost all my other K-mount lenses. Magical enough for me.


QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Photokina 2012 will mark the split of the market into APSC mirrorless amateur and FF SLR enthusiast/professional. IMHO
Oh no, I'll have to defer getting a K-5 or something better till September 2012 now.

Regarding the "market split": Surely, enthusiast APS-C DSLRs will continue to be an attractive choice for a bit longer. But you may be right that 2012 could become the year that marked the end of high-end APS-C DSLRs.
11-08-2011, 09:54 PM   #1062
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The format fits the image circle produced by my FA 77/1.8 and is the best for almost all my other K-mount lenses. Magical enough for me.
After seeing sample images on PixelPeeper of this lens (and other Limiteds) on a FF Canon, my copy will become even more magical on a FF PENTAX!!!!!
11-08-2011, 10:14 PM   #1063
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I think new CCD sensors from Kodak could be used in new Leica mirrorless (NOT RF!!!) - they said about development of mirrorless system and maybe in Fuji's mirrorless system.
11-08-2011, 10:26 PM   #1064
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
If Pentax does finally develop a full-frame system, would it... somehow pull the K-5's (or the Pentax enthusiast-level cams) price down?
That's just going to happen over time on it's own. I can't imagine a FF will appeal to enough folks that they will have trouble selling the K-5, in fact, if pros actually do defect to Pentax from other brands, they may pick up a K-5 as a backup/tele body. I think the K-5 will continue to slowly come down, but only to a point, they're not going to sell it below cost.
11-08-2011, 10:37 PM   #1065
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Going from


to a serious video camera in modern times is one bridge to far I think.
The photo got me thinking, what if Pentax makes a mirrorless body (FF or not) with this "pistol" shape. The long shape will allow K mount registration distance to be kept
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