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11-09-2011, 06:30 AM   #1081
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I'm sorry, but this reminds me of snake oil like directional speaker cables...
WHAT!!!!! you mean my $600 Speaker cables aren't directional,!!!! GRRRRR if i find that salesman

11-09-2011, 06:33 AM   #1082
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I wonder if we'll see CMOS larger-than-FF (MF/cropped MF) sensors soon?
Leica said in a recent interview that the S2 would be moving to CMOS to offer HD Video. I'm sure Pentax is headed the same direction. A 645D with HD Video and the right lenses could make a big splash if done right.
11-09-2011, 07:05 AM   #1083
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Pentax theoretically could make two FF dslrs, one with the conventional sony cmos sensor with video and super high iso (what ever) this one could be for the masses and a limited addition with the 16 mp ccd sensor that focus on image quality. If the ccd had much better image quality? I know which one I would want. I don't think either would be cheap.

K1 &
K1 Limited, sweet
11-09-2011, 08:47 AM   #1084
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Well, I'm quite expirienced with 15Ltd and know its weaknesses. It's the lens aimed to produce cartoonish pics and that's all.
Today I'm sure it's the lens of their price $500 and nothing more. Sometimes it's capable of produce stunning results. But sometimes you need too much PP to get something appealing.
Of course, I'm not a pro and uses 15Ltd only occasionally, but pros who were using this lens are tend to agree with me.
For example, shooting portrait indoors using dispersed sunlight from the window. All FA Ltds, FA*, A*, zeisses I tried gives picture with soft lightness transition. In such a conditions (which I found to be perfect) 15Ltd manages to get contrast image.
F%ck, I don't need contrast image here, I don't see such a harsh gradient here, and I don't expect to see it on the photo. But this Ltd does it.
I can tell the same about other DA Ltds (although the effect isn't pronounced as strong as on 15), but this makes those ltds being inferior performers which just don't worth their price.
I was amazed how (relatively) popular DA Ltds on this forum. In our Moscow pentaxian club the majority supposes these DA Ltds are not real Ltds. At least they are inferior compared to FA Ltds.
I guess the insane contrast of DA Ltds is the cost for being sharp enough and small at the same time.
This really is an odd way to look at it. 'high contrast' simply means accurate and very efficient color and light transmition. Unless you're actually talking about some odd color shift, 'high contrast' indicates a better optical design. The microcontrast and tonal transitions and gradients are also more accurate, cleaner, with these high contrast lenses. And if high contrast isn't what you're after, it's easier to drain contrast from an image in PP than it is to add it (skillfully.)

The FA LImiteds have speed and very pleasing rendering, especially and OOF transition with the 77, but it's very hard to make the case that they're really superior to the DA Limiteds, optically. I'm speaking as someone who's favorite lens is probably the 77ltd.

The DA 15 and 35ltd are just remarkable. I really see how great they are after shooting with just 'good' lenses for a week - going back to the 15 & 35 just brings a "oh, that's here all the color is!" reaction.


.

11-09-2011, 10:04 AM   #1085
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Well, I'm quite expirienced with 15Ltd and know its weaknesses. It's the lens aimed to produce cartoonish pics and that's all.
Today I'm sure it's the lens of their price $500 and nothing more. Sometimes it's capable of produce stunning results. But sometimes you need too much PP to get something appealing.
Of course, I'm not a pro and uses 15Ltd only occasionally, but pros who were using this lens are tend to agree with me.
For example, shooting portrait indoors using dispersed sunlight from the window. All FA Ltds, FA*, A*, zeisses I tried gives picture with soft lightness transition. In such a conditions (which I found to be perfect) 15Ltd manages to get contrast image.
F%ck, I don't need contrast image here, I don't see such a harsh gradient here, and I don't expect to see it on the photo. But this Ltd does it.
I can tell the same about other DA Ltds (although the effect isn't pronounced as strong as on 15), but this makes those ltds being inferior performers which just don't worth their price.
I was amazed how (relatively) popular DA Ltds on this forum. In our Moscow pentaxian club the majority supposes these DA Ltds are not real Ltds. At least they are inferior compared to FA Ltds.
I guess the insane contrast of DA Ltds is the cost for being sharp enough and small at the same time.

I'm a professional, I use the 15. Most of this information is subjective, and in my subjective opinion, wrong.
11-09-2011, 11:19 AM   #1086
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If you're losing data to the excellent image quality of the DA 15 then you're doing something very wrong. As said before, just sort it out in PP if you don't like it. Most other people do, and high contrast (and especially for Pentax Lt's, micro-contrast) is a sure sign of an excellent optical design, more so than sharpness in my opinion.

You do seem like an eccentric chap though, and I can definitely see why you don't like the lens if you want a low contrast image out of camera. Though you could just set the contrast lower in camera...
11-09-2011, 12:22 PM   #1087
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mareket Quote
I can definitely see why you don't like the lens if you want a low contrast image out of camera
OMG
Did I say somewhere I want low contrast image? I said I don't want high contrast where there were no high contrast. They are different things. And, I failed to get the image I wanted during the PP. The 15Ltd eleminates midtones.
11-09-2011, 02:32 PM   #1088
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Well, I never had an issue with mine destroying my mid-tones, and I wouldn't say the lens results in a high contrast shot, so if you want less contrast than normal contrast I'd call that low contrast. Given the lighting setup I can imagine that you might want a less contrasty picture, but it does seem odd that all the others worked fine for you an the DA 15 didn't, especially when everyone else raves about how amazing the lens is. Seriously, the light must have been weird if it REALLY took it's toll on the data in your shot, I can't find any situation with mine where there is a loss of data due to high contrast. I shot a lot in full sunlight in Edinburgh on a random day out and got stunningly detailed images with excellent exposure from shadows all the way through to the highlights.

Why are people talking about the DA 15 Ltd again anyway? Isn't this a thread about full fame?

11-09-2011, 02:42 PM   #1089
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
OMG
Did I say somewhere I want low contrast image? I said I don't want high contrast where there were no high contrast. They are different things. And, I failed to get the image I wanted during the PP. The 15Ltd eleminates midtones.
I don't think lenses work that way. "Contrast" in a lens usually refers to microcontrast (which relates to sharpness and resolution), not the overall tonal range of the image. A poor lens can be prone to stray-light artifacts like veiling glare, which reduce global contrast but that's universally a bad thing, not a tunable where if you go too far in reducing stray light there's a problem.

I think something else is causing the effect you are seeing possibly something with the sensor.... maybe having to do with the metering, since the lens is much more wide-angle than any of the other lenses you've referenced.
11-09-2011, 04:16 PM   #1090
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
WHAT!!!!! you mean my $600 Speaker cables aren't directional,!!!! GRRRRR if i find that salesman
They have to be directional, otherwise the phase inversion in the speakers' voice coils would be recirculated to the amplifier section and you'd get feedback. Or something ....
11-09-2011, 04:54 PM   #1091
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
OMG
Did I say somewhere I want low contrast image? I said I don't want high contrast where there were no high contrast. They are different things. And, I failed to get the image I wanted during the PP. The 15Ltd eleminates midtones.
I'd be interested in seeing the histograms of the images you took with the 15 and the other lenses you mentioned.

The DA Limiteds definitely have more punch than the FA Limiteds, but I would not describe them as midtone killers.
11-09-2011, 11:24 PM   #1092
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
OMG
Did I say somewhere I want low contrast image? I said I don't want high contrast where there were no high contrast. They are different things. And, I failed to get the image I wanted during the PP. The 15Ltd eleminates midtones.
Like I said before... The Iphone is the camera for you.
11-10-2011, 02:48 AM   #1093
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Compare camera sizes!

Coming back at how big such a camera is. I'm still aiming at a K-5 with integrated grip as a new platform for that new camera (with either Full Frame or APS-H sensor)

Compare camera dimensions side by side

Next to a D3s that is still a small camera. Look how tiny that Q is!

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 11-10-2011 at 01:37 PM.
11-10-2011, 03:14 AM   #1094
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Coming back at how big such a camera is. I'm still aiming at a K-5 with inegrated grip as a new platform for that new camera 9with either Full Frame or APS-H sensor)

Compare camera dimensions side by side

Next to a D3s that is still a small camera. Look how tiny that Q is!
Nice website! The 7D looks like a utter beast compared to the K-5, but the D7000 seems a bit closer in size. Heck, the 60D is quite a bit larger than the K-5...
11-10-2011, 06:15 AM   #1095
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Coming back at how big such a camera is. I'm still aiming at a K-5 with inegrated grip as a new platform for that new camera 9with either Full Frame or APS-H sensor)

Compare camera dimensions side by side

Next to a D3s that is still a small camera. Look how tiny that Q is!
Next to the Canon 1dx even the d3 looks manageable

A k5 with integrated grip would probably be a little bigger than a 5d or d700 without the grip. Functionally with a fast 2.8 zoom of any length this would still be the best configuration. less so with the small primes though

I don't actually find my k7/grip unweildly but generally only use the grip with my 24-70 2.8. if I'm shooting primes i just take the body
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