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11-12-2011, 02:16 PM   #1156
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QuoteOriginally posted by markac Quote
Why buy a D700? It's old and due to be replaced very soon. A Pentax FF would be much more interesting and a bit smaller. Hopefully a lot more than 12MP too.
can you buy a Pentax FF dlsr now?

11-12-2011, 02:49 PM   #1157
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
And thank you for that. . I rather fell into the top left - they become somehow three-dimensional to me with that aperture, field of view, and depth of the subjects.

Update: This may be my first post in an FF thread. Probably the last guy around here who can say that
Thanks and you're welcome and welcome to your first FF thread! I'm sure we'll never have one of these again!

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
@jsherman999, those are absolutely brilliant. Love them!!!
Thanks!

QuoteOriginally posted by _quicksilver_ Quote
jsherman999,

The first two are fabulous shots! They somehow remind me of 6x7 MF photos - So three-dimensional you could almost step inside into the picture!
Exactly what I was trying for, almost a Civil War look. I'm sure the large format cameras used then though would have got that look from f/2.8 or f/4, at that FOV & distance though, not f/1.8

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Nice shots those first two! What ever lens/camera it's made they are wonderful!
D700 + 50 1.8D @ f/1.8 (thx!)
11-12-2011, 03:30 PM   #1158
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
D700 + 50 1.8D @ f/1.8 (thx!)
Funny, but that combination is about the same price as K-5 and FA 31mm/f1.8 wich would make about the same picture

So that is good for the money!
11-12-2011, 04:39 PM   #1159
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Funny, but that combination is about the same price as K-5 and FA 31mm/f1.8 wich would make about the same picture

So that is good for the money!
Almost, but you'd need about a 34mm f/1.2 to match the FOV/DOF on aps-c (if you wanted to match it.) The Nikon 35 f/1.4 comes close and is $1600, so I figure an f/1.2 would be $2K

Or you could use the MF Samyang 35 f/1.4 to get close, for about half the price of the 31ltd (but really big, and MF)


Last edited by jsherman999; 11-12-2011 at 04:44 PM.
11-12-2011, 04:49 PM   #1160
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Funny, but that combination is about the same price as K-5 and FA 31mm/f1.8 wich would make about the same picture

So that is good for the money!
Perhaps, but if you need to spend $1200 to match each and every relatively cheap, slower lens on FF, APS-C begins to lose out on the economy front.
11-12-2011, 05:26 PM   #1161
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QuoteOriginally posted by markac Quote
Why buy a D700? It's old and due to be replaced very soon. A Pentax FF would be much more interesting and a bit smaller. Hopefully a lot more than 12MP too.
How big of a prints are you making? I guess if you are selling poster size prints for a living. I will agree with the small part, but you get what you can get. I wish Pentax would make a Fuji X100 style interchangeable lens camera but they aren't going to. I will hold on to my prime lenses by Pentax until early next year. Until I see where they are headed. Ricoh knows how to make a camera so I expect good things for the brand down the road in a few years. For the DSLR, I can't imagine needing better image quality than I get out of the D700. My printer (sadly a Canon Pixma Pro 9500 MK II) doesn't print on paper bigger than 13 X19 so more megapixels isn't going to matter to me. I won't buy another printer until this one dies. I will say it's held up better than the HP I had, so I think I'm stuck with it for awhile.

As for the Pentax Full Frame, no offense to anyone intended, but I bet next year at this time it will still be the same thing. I also don't think you need a Full Frame camera to be a good photographer.

I would still contend that regardless of how many megapixels your camera has the lenses will make more a difference. Pentax just doesn't have the lenses that Nikon has, yet. I'm not willing to wait 3+ years for them to make them. What's the last two DSLR lenses they made. A very slow 35mm and a good kit zoom. I think the bigger problem with Pentax especially when it comes to professionals (as in I really pay my mortgage/rent and buy my groceries with my photography) is their lens selection. By and large professionals want zooms. The only two good ones Pentax makes are very unreliable. No good portrait lens either. I have a Nikon 85mm F1.4 and the 77mm. No way the 77 is as good as the Nikon.

Also I'd guess you can get a good reduced price D700 early next year before you can get a Pentax Full Frame. It really is a big camera, but it takes great photos. If someone REALLY wanted a Full Frame camera, I would just wait until early Spring and I'd bet you could pick up one for $1500.
11-12-2011, 06:42 PM   #1162
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
As for the Pentax Full Frame, no offense to anyone intended, but I bet next year at this time it will still be the same thing. I also don't think you need a Full Frame camera to be a good photographer.
I just hoped to become a good photographer with buying such a Full Frame camera So you still suggest that I learn to make pictures

I'll bet you you had a B9180 Luckily mine still works fine.
11-12-2011, 09:12 PM   #1163
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I can't imagine needing better image quality than I get out of the D700.
How do you find the ergonomics, compared to Pentax? Not the size (I actually prefer a bigger body), but control placements for the right hand.

QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
As for the Pentax Full Frame, no offense to anyone intended, but I bet next year at this time it will still be the same thing.
Under any other circumstance I'd totally (and sadly) agree. Except for that post by Ogl several pages back. I could be imagining things, but I think his track record is alarmingly correct... I think he knows someone.

11-12-2011, 09:25 PM   #1164
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I just hoped to become a good photographer with buying such a Full Frame camera So you still suggest that I learn to make pictures

I'll bet you you had a B9180 Luckily mine still works fine.
I think that was the one. It was a very good printer. I wasn't real happy when it cr@pped the bed.

I will say this much. I kind of doubted the Full Frame advantage until I got the D700. I do wish it was a bit smaller. I had used a the Canon 5 D before. I personally if you are doing stills, I think Nikon has the right idea with the fewer megapixels. If you are doing video perhaps the more megapixels is better. I'm not really sure since I've never shot video. Hopefully Pentax will release one soon. The only problem I see for them as far as sales are concerned is the lens selection. For example here's Nikon's fixed lenses:

Nikon | Imaging Products | NIKKOR Lenses

Look how many FX lenses they have including still making fully manual AI's which are just great lenses. That 28mm AI is the probably the sharpest lens I've ever used:

Then there are the zooms (I'm not partial to zooms but I do recognize they are in many many cases as good as prime lenses, I just don't like the size of them):


They also have tilt shifts and really long lenses. Not something I would want, but I'm sure there are quite a few people who would. Pentax just needs to work on their lenses. Their bodies are very good, but they really don't have any Full Frame lenses to compete with Nikon...yet.
11-12-2011, 09:44 PM - 1 Like   #1165
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QuoteOriginally posted by noser Quote
How do you find the ergonomics, compared to Pentax? Not the size (I actually prefer a bigger body), but control placements for the right hand.


Under any other circumstance I'd totally (and sadly) agree. Except for that post by Ogl several pages back. I could be imagining things, but I think his track record is alarmingly correct... I think he knows someone.
Actually now that I've used it for a few days I'm getting used to it. It's a big camera no doubt but let's face it, Nikon really knows how to build a camera. So I find holding it very easy. The ISO range is just stunning (which I think according to Ken Rockwell is a function of the fewer megapixels). I took my parents to this really good barbeque place where I live today. They are getting really old and so I took some photos of them. I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the ISO 3200 shots I did inside and the ISO 200 shots I did outside. Anyway, this allows you to handhold at wider apertures with out worrying about SR. Overall I'm really pleased with the camera. I'm still getting used to the controls because I've shot Pentax for so many years. The hardest thing is I still want to turn the lens the wrong way when I mount it. I've used a lot of cameras and the control wheel on the back is the best I've ever used. I love the placement of the function button. I'm using some older AI lenses which you have to enter in the cameras menu. I assigned those to the function button. I'm right handed. The other thing I like is thumb grip on the back. I have to say, I really kind of criticized bigger cameras, but again, now that I've used it just works so well. So I will admit I was wrong in my assessment. Perhaps its better to be either small or big. Maybe trying to split the difference you don't end up with either advantage. Keep in mind I really love the GXR. If you haven't used one you should try it out.

On Pentax, I think they will make one. If you have used a GXR or GRD, Ricoh is a company that really loves photography. But they do need a bigger lens selection. I'm not sure Ricoh would have rushed out the 645 without any lenses. I expect them to really invest in the brand but it may take a few years before we see any real payoff from that investment.

One more thing on the size of the D700, I would never get the grip. Then it would be too big. I think you get 500 shots out of the battery. I did read where the auto focus is perhaps a little faster with the grip. But it's pretty fast as is. It's really big enough not need the grip. If you can't get your hand on this thing you have some really big hands.
11-12-2011, 09:51 PM   #1166
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I just hoped to become a good photographer with buying such a Full Frame camera So you still suggest that I learn to make pictures

I'll bet you you had a B9180 Luckily mine still works fine.
Also I'm guessing you are probably a really good photographer. But you guys are right, there is definitely a difference. I'm sure some of it is the lenses. But you really get beautiful out of focus areas with this camera. Just be a more patient than me. Ricoh will do right by Pentax. I just happened to get a large check for vacation days I never took when I changed jobs recently + I sold off a lot of MFT gear that I wasn't using because of the GXR. You know how it is for us Americans. Vacation is a no no.................... At least I got paid for not taking it. I think I would have rather had the time off.
11-13-2011, 03:07 AM   #1167
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Hopefully Pentax will release one soon. The only problem I see for them as far as sales are concerned is the lens selection. For example here's Nikon's fixed lenses:

Nikon | Imaging Products | NIKKOR Lenses

Look how many FX lenses they have including still making fully manual AI's which are just great lenses. That 28mm AI is the probably the sharpest lens I've ever used:

Then there are the zooms (I'm not partial to zooms but I do recognize they are in many many cases as good as prime lenses, I just don't like the size of them):

They also have tilt shifts and really long lenses. Not something I would want, but I'm sure there are quite a few people who would. Pentax just needs to work on their lenses. Their bodies are very good, but they really don't have any Full Frame lenses to compete with Nikon...yet.
I counted 55 items and that is a lot. Not all of interest for everyone, but still choices for every purpose.

When I look at current lensline for Pentax then I come to 13 items.
31mm, 35mm, 40mm, 43mm, 50mm macro, 50mm, 55mm, 70mm, 77mm, 100mm macro, 200mm, 300mm and only one zoom 60-250mm.

There is a need for some serious investment. I'm an optimist, so if they have on next PhotoKina a Full Frame (or APS-H) camera with new lenses 24mm/f2, 28-70mm/f2.8 and 80-200mm/f2.8 and a lens roadmap the system can have a start.

Something that can be done!
11-13-2011, 04:04 AM   #1168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
can you buy a Pentax FF dlsr now?
I meant if you have to buy a Nikon, why not wait for the D800?
11-13-2011, 04:16 AM   #1169
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QuoteOriginally posted by markac Quote
I meant if you have to buy a Nikon, why not wait for the D800?
He bought it quite a long ago (check this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/110876...-thoughts.html )

Last edited by Emacs; 11-13-2011 at 04:21 AM.
11-13-2011, 05:22 AM   #1170
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I counted 55 items and that is a lot. Not all of interest for everyone, but still choices for every purpose.

When I look at current lensline for Pentax then I come to 13 items.
31mm, 35mm, 40mm, 43mm, 50mm macro, 50mm, 55mm, 70mm, 77mm, 100mm macro, 200mm, 300mm and only one zoom 60-250mm.

There is a need for some serious investment. I'm an optimist, so if they have on next PhotoKina a Full Frame (or APS-H) camera with new lenses 24mm/f2, 28-70mm/f2.8 and 80-200mm/f2.8 and a lens roadmap the system can have a start.

Something that can be done!
Agreed. I'm not a zoom user per se, but I think that's where I would start.
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