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11-19-2011, 02:17 PM   #1351
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
16mm samsung is better than one of sony without a doubt.
Don't know about shifted microlenses, but most likely it has. They have already suffered from the edge problem with their 20mm pancake, and this solution is the most effective.

is this like you said the samsung sensor would be miles ahead, and at the end it isn't so.

11-19-2011, 02:19 PM   #1352
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Hmm spelling mistake on my part. Sorry. Bad spelling is normally one of my pet peeves!

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Those must be the 1Ds prototypes, then. Really, really big.

(canon != cannon.... see title of my response.)

11-19-2011, 02:23 PM   #1353
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
is this like you said the samsung sensor would be miles ahead, and at the end it isn't so.
I don't care
I decided to buy Leica Super Elmar 18 in order to have 28mm equivalent with the NEX-5n, so I don't care about budget pancakes
And then 50mm summilux
I think I won't have any sony native lens, but k-mount and m-mount ones
11-19-2011, 03:44 PM   #1354
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
is this like you said the samsung sensor would be miles ahead, and at the end it isn't so.
from a 20MP standpoint, it does seem to be ahead than the K-5. although the K-5 works wonders with DR and High-ISO. wonder how high the DR is of the Samsung, but it looks pretty solid.

on topic, it would be a miracle if Pentax-Ricoh could release a FF next year which I doubt. even if they ever come out with one next year, I'll be probably get one in late 2014 or early 2015 ( 4 years from now). I'm still keeping some of the classic lenses that hopefully I would use for that format. too bad that I don't have the M85 anymore. although I could surely get one if ever.

11-19-2011, 04:00 PM   #1355
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Your point is the dude in black may be reasonably upset ?



QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
I don't have these shots. The 15Ltd + K-5 belong to the friend in the black. The NEX-5N + 16mm are of the friend in the white.
11-19-2011, 11:20 PM   #1356
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QuoteOriginally posted by G and T Quote
Pentax already has made a full frame camera! In 2001 they pre-released a prototype based on an MZ-S, what a camera that would have been. I don't know why it was dropped,it may have been due to costs?

It wasn't costs exactly. That 6MP FF sensor (Philips FTF3020-C) had a number of technical issues and most camera manufacturers that were considering it, abandoned it. Only Contax persevered, using it in the N Digital and producing the first FF DSLR. Unfortunately it was problematic for Contax too, and the N1 Digital sold in very small numbers. With no other reasonably priced FF sensor on the horizon, Pentax eventually went with APS-C for the interim. Unfortunately that 'interim' has been a very long time. Time to look at FF again Pentax.
11-20-2011, 01:53 AM   #1357
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QuoteOriginally posted by markac Quote
With no other reasonably priced FF sensor on the horizon, Pentax eventually went with APS-C for the interim. Unfortunately that 'interim' has been a very long time
It's just a way to see at what happened then.

I'd say that with no other reasonably priced FF sensor on the horizon, Pentax eventually chose to make APS-C their only digital format (like Olympus did with four third) and revamped their lens line accordingly, until last year when 33x44 mm format was added.
11-20-2011, 02:56 AM   #1358
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QuoteOriginally posted by jackseh Quote
Your point is the dude in black may be reasonably upset ?
Yes, he was amazed seeing how the cheap $150 glass outperformed the limited.


Last edited by Emacs; 11-20-2011 at 09:31 AM.
11-20-2011, 02:58 AM   #1359
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
until last year when 33x44 mm format was added.
It's highly unlikely being a new format. Just take a look at both DFA lenses: they are true 645.
11-20-2011, 09:08 AM   #1360
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Does anyone think that all these 15 camera's together come even close to the salesnumbers on Nikon's D40?
This kind of argument is flawed by definition.

It is like somebody asking Steve Jobs (R.I.P.) if the number of smart phones sold comes close to the salesnumbers of any Nokia bestseller phone. Question asked prior to the iPhone of course.

One simply doesn't ask this kind of questions. Except if you are a follower, not an entrepreneur.

Just draft and perfect a ground-breaking product and the market will be your least enemy ...
11-20-2011, 09:32 AM   #1361
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
This kind of argument is flawed by definition.

It is like somebody asking Steve Jobs (R.I.P.) if the number of smart phones sold comes close to the salesnumbers of any Nokia bestseller phone. Question asked prior to the iPhone of course.

One simply doesn't ask this kind of questions. Except if you are a follower, not an entrepreneur.

Just draft and perfect a ground-breaking product and the market will be your least enemy ...
Or, if you draft and perfect a very solid and respectable full frame camera that gets just about everything right except being ground-breaking, you have the Sony A900, and the market will give you a great big yawn.
11-20-2011, 11:32 AM   #1362
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Or, if you draft and perfect a very solid and respectable full frame camera that gets just about everything right except being ground-breaking, you have the Sony A900, and the market will give you a great big yawn.
I would think that Pentax users would be thrilled with a Pentax version of the A900. I still think that is one of the best FF cameras on the market for people only interested in still photography.

Pentax needs to make it as compact as possible without sacrificing the really large VF and a quality SR system.I don't care if it has a Kodak CCD, Samsung, or Sony CMOS as long as the IQ is top notch. I really don't care if it is APS-H. The thing I really want to see from Pentax is the investment in some modern high quality glass. A much improved SDM, AF, & SR system.

I don't think sensor size is the largest obstacle currently facing Pentax.
11-20-2011, 12:48 PM   #1363
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I would think that Pentax users would be thrilled with a Pentax version of the A900. I still think that is one of the best FF cameras on the market for people only interested in still photography.

Pentax needs to make it as compact as possible without sacrificing the really large VF and a quality SR system.I don't care if it has a Kodak CCD, Samsung, or Sony CMOS as long as the IQ is top notch. I really don't care if it is APS-H. The thing I really want to see from Pentax is the investment in some modern high quality glass. A much improved SDM, AF, & SR system.

I don't think sensor size is the largest obstacle currently facing Pentax.

I don't think the SR system Pentax has now is lacking by any means. There's always room for improvement sure, but I'm more than happy with it and the ability to turn it off. SDM system.. yes.. tank it, the DC motor in the 18-135 works great.. improve on it and phase out the SDM?.. and yes.. the AF system we've been over many times in this thread already.
Does the AF system need improvements yes, and yes it will be at the cost of camera body size most likely.. but it does need to be done.

I agree sensor size is not the largest obstacle for pentax, but sensor size is the EASIEST notable improvement I think Pentax can make for their systems, even using the same processor with a bigger/better buffer would be "marginally" ok for the next gen. But I think they can do better than that. Time will tell, hopefully my K-5 will last me until the next gen or two is released and we know if they are looking @ FF/APS-H or something as such.
11-20-2011, 12:56 PM   #1364
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Or, if you draft and perfect a very solid and respectable full frame camera that gets just about everything right except being ground-breaking, you have the Sony A900, and the market will give you a great big yawn.
Actually it got several things wrong - mediocre high-iso performance, mediocre AF, no Live View, and a paltry-yet-expensive list of new lenses. (And it carried a Sony name.) It's a very good camera in several ways, but missed in a couple key areas.

As I said before, using the A900 as a reason to not make new FF camera is like using the Apple Newton as a reason to not make an ipad.


.
11-20-2011, 01:11 PM   #1365
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
I don't think the SR system Pentax has now is lacking by any means. There's always room for improvement sure, but I'm more than happy with it and the ability to turn it off. SDM system.. yes.. tank it, the DC motor in the 18-135 works great.. improve on it and phase out the SDM?.. and yes.. the AF system we've been over many times in this thread already.
Does the AF system need improvements yes, and yes it will be at the cost of camera body size most likely.. but it does need to be done.

I agree sensor size is not the largest obstacle for pentax, but sensor size is the EASIEST notable improvement I think Pentax can make for their systems, even using the same processor with a bigger/better buffer would be "marginally" ok for the next gen. But I think they can do better than that. Time will tell, hopefully my K-5 will last me until the next gen or two is released and we know if they are looking @ FF/APS-H or something as such.
Here is the problem. Sony, Nikon, & Pentax are all using the same sensors. What will really separate the cameras is the support technology. AF, SR, Lens technology and QC. Since Pentax will have access to the same sensors as the competition the future success of the line depends on advancements in these support technologies. Where can Pentax find and advantage?

Put out an APS-H body in the $1,500 price point. Don't use it to compete against FF, use it to compete against APS-C and it will be a huge success.
SR, AF, OVF, and lens quality are going to be where the advantages are found.

I skipped the K-5 so I will probably upgrade to the K-5's replacement IF I see advances in those areas. Better AF, Better SR, Better OVF, Better lenses.

Kodak's new CCDs are interesting.
Fuji's new Organic Sensor technology is interesting.
Samsung's new sensors look to be solid performers.
Sony is doing really good things with its sensors.

We have never had this many really good sensor options.
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