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11-21-2011, 06:06 AM   #1381
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
There's no point in yet another crop. Stay with APS-C or go Full Frame.
Rest is mess.
Yes there is. I was very sceptic towards APS-H too, but these are the points that convinced me:

DA lenses are usable on APC-H. Which means there is no need to develope almost a whole new lens lineup. And for the users there's no need to buy a whole new set of lenses.

SR is easier to implement.

This really fits into the more-bang-for-the-buck concept which Pentax is known for. Moreover, this will generate more revenue for Pentax.

The classic Pentaxian doesn't have the money for canikon FF's, so they probably don't have money for a Pentax FF either. But this way, there's a lower cost, body-only upgradepath for the poor Pentax hobbyist in which they don't even have to buy lense-sets.

In short, I think currently it's easier to build a businesscase for APS-H, then for FF.

11-21-2011, 06:57 AM   #1382
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I think that one certain way Pentax can shoot themselves in the balls is to cater to the needs of the forum members here.
Which needs should they decide not to cater to? Need for more quality control, more lenses, faster AF, option for bigger sensor, SDM replacement, etc?

If they cater to your needs, they're OK, any other needs are superfluous?

Their whopping 5% SLR pie slice suggests a little too much 'status quo is fine' thinking in the past 25 years.
11-21-2011, 07:29 AM   #1383
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Yes there is. I was very sceptic towards APS-H too
I'm still very sceptic towards APS-H, but I can easily see myself buying one (big viewfinder, decent high ISO and LV, please!) if priced closer to high-end APS-C than entry-level FF. The main issues being the sensor itself (must have a higher IQ than APS-C and be cheap enough) and the market positioning (a better alternative for high-end APS-C or just "we're unable to make a FF camera, so we had to settle for this"?)
11-21-2011, 07:34 AM - 1 Like   #1384
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
DA lenses are usable on APC-H. Which means there is no need to develope almost a whole new lens lineup. And for the users there's no need to buy a whole new set of lenses.
But some of them are usable on FF as well! Instead of lobotomizing the whole camera, I suggest instead to implement a "variable crop" for DA lenses with the recommended crop showing in the viewfinder (LCD overlay?).

QuoteQuote:
SR is easier to implement.
yes, but Sony already did it for FF...

QuoteQuote:
In short, I think currently it's easier to build a businesscase for APS-H, then for FF.
Except that everyone (except a few enthusiasts here) will regard APS-H as "half empty FF" and not "half full FF". And fully disregarding the fact that APS-H sensors may turn out more expensive than FF sensors...

11-21-2011, 07:34 AM   #1385
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Which needs should they decide not to cater to? Need for more quality control, more lenses, faster AF, option for bigger sensor, SDM replacement, etc?

If they cater to your needs, they're OK, any other needs are superfluous?

Their whopping 5% SLR pie slice suggests a little too much 'status quo is fine' thinking in the past 25 years.
Status quo on dslr is fine. In fact, maybe they should abandon dslr altogether, as it is a dying breed. I am sure they make more money from P & S and other "non enthusiast" items. Although I must admit, the dslr k-x was a hit but hardly an enthusiast model. A solid line of pro equipment is good for PR, but overall not a magic bullet for a stagnant company like Pentax. Spending limited resources on developing FF model sounds fiscally stupid.

645d is an unique situation, however. But this is hardly the predominant needs of the majority of forum members here.

Now that Olympus has stumbled, they should pour more of their resources to medical equipment division. 75% market share dominance on endo and bronchoscope can crumble - something nobody saw coming.
11-21-2011, 07:59 AM   #1386
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Status quo on dslr is fine. In fact, maybe they should abandon dslr altogether, as it is a dying breed. I am sure they make more money from P & S and other "non enthusiast" items. Although I must admit, the dslr k-x was a hit but hardly an enthusiast model. A solid line of pro equipment is good for PR, but overall not a magic bullet for a stagnant company like Pentax. Spending limited resources on developing FF model sounds fiscally stupid.

645d is an unique situation, however. But this is hardly the predominant needs of the majority of forum members here.

Now that Olympus has stumbled, they should pour more of their resources to medical equipment division. 75% market share dominance on endo and bronchoscope can crumble - something nobody saw coming.
Just, Pentax medical is now a total different company than Pentax Imaging... the first being a division of Hoya, the second of Ricoh...
11-21-2011, 08:00 AM   #1387
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Status quo on dslr is fine. In fact, maybe they should abandon dslr altogether, as it is a dying breed. I am sure they make more money from P & S and other "non enthusiast" items.
Sorry, but you can't be farther from the truth. Pentax is losing money with P&S - they are in fact supported by the DSLRs. Abandoning DSLRs (and their customers) would be the most stupid thing to do.

About endoscopes - that would be Hoya, not Pentax Ricoh Imaging Corporation.
eurostar, you were faster but, a small correction: PRIC is a company owned by Ricoh - not a Ricoh division. It could become one, of course; but for now it looks like it will be kept as a separate entity. Not that it matters much.
11-21-2011, 08:02 AM   #1388
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Sorry, but you can't be farther from the truth. Pentax is losing money with P&S - they are in fact supported by the DSLRs. Abandoning DSLRs (and their customers) would be the most stupid thing to do.

About endoscopes - that would be Hoya, not Pentax Ricoh Imaging Corporation.
I did not know that. Where did you hear that?

As to the medical division, you are right - Hoya kept it, didn't they?

11-21-2011, 08:16 AM   #1389
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I did not know that. Where did you hear that?

As to the medical division, you are right - Hoya kept it, didn't they?
P/S market is predicated on really low margins and High Volume. Given that Pentax has really tiny share in this market then it's a reasonable assumption to guess that. they certainly are not making the majority of their profit from p/s , I'd bet it's lucky to break even.
11-21-2011, 08:22 AM   #1390
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Except that everyone (except a few enthusiasts here) will regard APS-H as "half empty FF" and not "half full FF".
That would be a very sad reaction to a improvement.

FF or APS-H, both ways I'll be very glad to see my favorite brand expanding it's product line and thus expanding it's market. Personally, the only difference for me would be that APS-H would mean I'd be able to join in the fun.
11-21-2011, 08:22 AM   #1391
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This could be housing that new APS-H

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well I do realize that a camera that will pack more then a K-5 does needs to be bigger. But I don't believe that it isn't possible to make it small!

Looking at:


And making the grip integrated with the camera, just a little smaller then on this picture (wich can be done, since there is no separated connection between them) and don't make room for two battery's or a set of 6 AA's, but make room for one larger and more powerfull battery (more power then D-LI90 has to power up everything) then you still end up with a small camera

When K-5 messures: 131 x 97 x 73 mm (5.16 x 3.82 x 2.87") then you can make a K-1 (futuring a Full Frame of APS-H sensor) messuring 131 x 145 x 73 mm (5.16 x 5.71 x 2,87") futuring two sets of grips for landscape and portrait use. In this way there is for both grips the same space to the mount-housing giving the same workingway. Maybe still under 1 kg?

With only one battery inside, wich coult use a bigger space to carrie more power there is still a lot of extra room in the body to future more electronics and bigger AF-sensor. A second SDHC slot. Maybe even a little bigger screen on the back.

Is it small then?

When I look at 1D:
Wich messures 156 x 157 x 80 mm (6.14 x 6.18 x 3.15") and weights 1230 g (2.71 lb / 43.39 oz) then this K-1 is still very small.
I think that a small body, wich still would be for K-5 with integrated grip as a new platform would be could be the way to go. Can it be cheap? Well the answer is yes to the body. The sensormodule is a different matter.
11-21-2011, 08:27 AM   #1392
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Interesting that Pentax is surviving on P&S market.
I've never seen anyone walking around with Pentax P&S, nor have I ever owned one, not even an ESPIO MINI.
11-21-2011, 08:33 AM   #1393
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QuoteOriginally posted by jackseh Quote
Interesting that Pentax is surviving on P&S market.
I've never seen anyone walking around with Pentax P&S, nor have I ever owned one, not even an ESPIO MINI.
Well I think that most of them are losing money on P&S. Look at Olympus and Kodak, they have a big shunk of the market and both are loosing money.

I have no idea who makes those Pentax P&S? Maybe just from a Chinese factory with a lensmodule from Hoya (that is still owned by Hoya and not part of current Pentax company).
11-21-2011, 08:38 AM   #1394
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I did not know that. Where did you hear that?

As to the medical division, you are right - Hoya kept it, didn't they?
From the IR reports on Hoya's site. Maybe they were able to break even since then, but certainly they can't be more profitable than the DSLRs.
Yes, and the most interesting part is that both Hoya and Ricoh (PRIC, actually) will be using the Pentax brand name; Hoya for endoscopes &such, PRIC for cameras.
11-21-2011, 08:54 AM   #1395
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
From the IR reports on Hoya's site. Maybe they were able to break even since then, but certainly they can't be more profitable than the DSLRs.
Yes, and the most interesting part is that both Hoya and Ricoh (PRIC, actually) will be using the Pentax brand name; Hoya for endoscopes &such, PRIC for cameras.
And Seiko for Eyeglass lenses as was pointed out to me earlier
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