[Zygonyx]

The Canon 7D and 5D Mark II are advanced amateur cameras too. As in: the 5D is deliberately crippled as to not to eat into the 1D series' sales. That's why Pentax could easily take the FF market by storm, as there's no professional camera line to protect. A Pentax FF model will always be better than the entry-level FF from Canon/Nikon. Because it will never eat into the sales of 645D's as they don't share the same lens mount.

Well, this sounds pretty common-sensed, but you've put it sounder than i ever saw.

[Gimbal]

The Canon 7D and 5D Mark II are advanced amateur cameras too.

Yes that is in Canon-land, but in Pentax land advanced amateur means APS-C, (as of yet). So what they actually have said is that they will continue with APS-C.

[NaClH2O]

Like many others, I could care less about FF, but it is nice that they responded. Seriously I hope they don't waste the time developing one, I can think of many many other areas that could use improvement, preditive AF, flash, better video, etc etc etc

NaCl(FF is a waste of time and resources)H2O

[gazonk]

Because it will never eat into the sales of 645D's as they don't share the same lens mount.

But I can't free myself from the thought that they may consider a "645D Light" camera as their "FF" camera.

[Asahiflex]

But I can't free myself from the thought that they may consider a "645D Light" camera as their "FF" camera.

Well, in that case I wish them a lot of success explaining why that is considered an "upgrade path" for K-mount shooters, as moving up would mean that our K-mount glass cannot be used anymore. So I could as well jump ship to Nikon/Canon, as I would have to start all over again anyway.

[Emacs]

If you were going to consider a new camera line, the starting point would be estimating the market size at release time and determining the percentage you want to capture and then working out your cost elements (including R&D) to see what price you'd put on it. Some current sales statistics would be helpful in minimising the guesswork here. Does anyone know the sales figures for Canon, Nikon and Sony DSLRs of this type?

The camera sales alone won't tell much. I spent on lenses much more than on camera, it's even more the case for canikons and sony I'm sure.
I think they (Ricoh-Pentax) would be glad to get my $ for the new shiny *135 f1.8(2.0), *28 f2.8 and *18 f4.0 + FF camera.

[NewTake]

This is certainly good news. I have always been a fan of Ricoh as well, very innovative. I have a ricoh gx100 that has quick menu options and more features than most DSLRs. As far as full frame goes, pentax has been making new FF lenses so I think it was the plan all along to come out with one. I cant imagine they were making them solely for film camera users. Looking forward to it. For those worried about your 'DA' lenses or lenses specifically made for APS-C sensors, I wouldnt worry, you will most likely still be able to use them on the FF pentax (both Canon and Nikon [and probably Sony] have this ability on their FF). It will just be cropped to an APS-C size, so you wont get the full frame. Not ideal, but if you have lenses that you love, then you would still be able to use them. I dont see myself buying a new FF fisheye lens, but I would certainly use my DA model on the FF. I have been doing my best to purchase FF lenses (vs APS-C specific) for my Pentax with this anticipation.

[rvannatta]

Am I still the only one seeing that now Canon leaves APS-H that this coult be the perfect target for Pentax to show their top-of-the-line K-mount camera in?

- Good and great sensor with 16-18 megapixel.
- Compatible with a larg amount of current DA lenses (except wide-angle <31mm)
- Great performance on hi-iso.
- Smaller body then those FF Canikon's to pack it in.

I want it!

This is pretty much what you wind up with if you make a camera that adapts itself to what ever lense is installed.

[NewTake]

The Canon 7D and 5D Mark II are advanced amateur cameras too. As in: the 5D is deliberately crippled as to not to eat into the 1D series' sales. That's why Pentax could easily take the FF market by storm, as there's no professional camera line to protect. A Pentax FF model will always be better than the entry-level FF from Canon/Nikon. Because it will never eat into the sales of 645D's as they don't share the same lens mount.

Good call... people always wonder why I have gone with Pentax, you pretty much summed it up for at least part of my reasons for choosing Pentax. While the 'competitors' of the k5 (and the ones before) are looking to remove options from their higher priced cameras, Pentax was only looking to make the best of the best, because it is their highest level camera (aside from 645).

[aragondina]

I for one could not wait any longer. The 5d mkII hit the sub $2000 price point and bang, I am now a Canonite. I started using it the second night of Western Canada Fashion Week, and was blown away by the image quality, even on a 2 year old camera, especially against my K7. one of the other official shooters was using a K5 right next to me, and while people talk about the k5 image quality, it still does not compare to the 5d mkII.

Once you go full frame, it's hard to go back. I have already sold all my Pentax gear, and am waiting on Paypal to release the funds so I can buy even more lenses!!

With the announcement of the 1D X, Pentax has fallen even farther behind. If they do bring one out, I hope for everyones sake it's a good one, or I fear Pentax would be crushed. It's bad enough they brought out the Q, a camera that the local store clerks try not to sell (and that is not a good thing for Pentax)

[Asahiflex]

I for one could not wait any longer. The 5d mkII hit the sub $2000 price point and bang, I am now a Canonite. I started using it the second night of Western Canada Fashion Week, and was blown away by the image quality, even on a 2 year old camera, especially against my K7. one of the other official shooters was using a K5 right next to me, and while people talk about the k5 image quality, it still does not compare to the 5d mkII.

Congratulations with your 5D MkII! Too bad about the readout noise in dark areas (even at ISO 100) and the banding at higher ISO's, both of which the K-5 does not suffer from. Still the 5D MkII is a great tool, although it does not win from the K-5 in pure IQ.

With the announcement of the 1D X, Pentax has fallen even farther behind.

Apparently Canon surrendered and chose not to compete with the 645D. They have *no* answer to the pure IQ the 645D provides.

[Emacs]

Still the 5D MkII is a great tool, although it does not win from the K-5 in pure IQ.

IMO the IQ is not just the ability to pull details out but the combination of optics + this ability
And although the 5d mk II sensor loses to Sony's K-5 one but the optics on FF works much better. I still prefer the 5D though: it's more capable in general but the wrong mount

[Asahiflex]

IMO the IQ is not the ability to pull details out but the combination of optics + this ability

Agreed, that's why I have some of the very best lenses

And although the 5d mk II sensor loses to Sony's K-5 one but the optics on FF works much better.

Actually I'm planning to buy the 5D MkII myself, when the MkIII comes out. Purely for my collection of old MF lenses from various brands and ages. I don't care about AF, but do like the FF look. (The 5D original I now have is in the process of being sold).

[LFLee]

create a FF line is not that easy, you got to have service centers that crater the needs of FF users. My friend got a 5DM, and he told me that Canon will clean the camera sensor for free (you pay shipping for like $25). No wonder I see Canon user change their lenses without much care about dust (like just 2 days ago seeing two guy just lay their lenses beside the road and changing them there..while car passing by create lots of dust and dirt).

I think is a whole network to set up for FF, and Pentax lack of this currently (you can't even find Pentax in many stores...).

But I will get one if the price is not too crazy. $2000-$3000, will get it. >$3000, probably will get it few years down the line.

Lee

[gazonk]

Well, in that case I wish them a lot of success explaining why that is considered an "upgrade path" for K-mount shooters, as moving up would mean that our K-mount glass cannot be used anymore. So I could as well jump ship to Nikon/Canon, as I would have to start all over again anyway.

I see your point, but consider this: Except for the DFA macros and the FA Limiteds, they haven't sold officially FF-capable glass for many, many years. So a full format K-mount Pentax only constitutes an upgrade path for potential customers with lots of old lenses. On the other hand, NEWER customers, or customers like me, who only have a couple of old FF-capable lenses, but several (well, I don't have the largest lens collection - I have the DA16-45 and two DA limiteds, but some have) newer APS-C-only lenses may be somewhat agnostic about which mount a new camera has.

In addition: It's still an open question how many of those old FF lenses made for film that will be really good on digital, isn't it?

Just trying to play the devil's advocate