Pentax Full Frame - An official statement from Pentax (they listened!)

**Septrain** · 10-19-2011, 05:40 PM

I have been waiting for Pentax FF DSLR ever since laid my hands on K1000 back in 1976.
At least, Pentax now understand the power of Marketing.

aragondina · 10-19-2011, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Congratulations with your 5D MkII! Too bad about the readout noise in dark areas (even at ISO 100) and the banding at higher ISO's, both of which the K-5 does not suffer from. Still the 5D MkII is a great tool, although it does not win from the K-5 in pure IQ.

Spoken like a true fanboy. I have used my 5dmkII at ISO3200, and still had better IQ and less noise than my K7 at ISO640. The K5 may be a good camera, but looking at the RAW files head to head, there is no comparison. Even at ISO6400 the 5D wins, and I have yet to see any issues with banding (and I had a K10d, I know what banding is) The 5D has comparable noise, just a tad less than the k5, but also more detail due to less NR being applied to the RAW file. Sadly the K5, and any APSC sensor will lose against a full frame anyday. They almost got there, but this new ff sensor will most likely blow away any gains APSC made against FF. Now if Ricoh does right and turns the R&D department loose and lets them develop products the public have been asking for they may (hopefully) be on the right track and can become a major player again.

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Apparently Canon surrendered and chose not to compete with the 645D. They have *no* answer to the pure IQ the 645D provides.

We have yet to see what the new 1Dx will do as far as IQ, yes they didn't produce the 36mp monster that was rumoured, but the 1Dx will most likely beat the 645D in every category except resolution. So except in very large prints I doubt anyone will see any measurable difference. The 1Dx will do it faster, cheaper, and with a huge lens selection (the 645 still only has 2 lenses in the lineup right?)

And I have an answer for the "pure IQ the 645D provides" I can do it in one word ..... Hasselblad

borno · 10-19-2011, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by NaClH2O

An $800 Q is a completely different beast than a $2500 + FF. Can you imagine that anyone who would put out that kind of money for that kind of camera would even remotely consider a "toy" lens?!

No they will want the FF equivalent of the DA* 16-50 and the DA* 50-135. At the very least. Granted they might be able to dust off the FA* 28-70 F/2.8 but they would have to weather seal it and outfit it with SDM or some sort of in lens focus motor. That wouldn't be inconsiderable R&D costs. And there is no older equivalent to the DA* 50-135. So you are going to try to sell a $2500 or more camera with one professional zoom lens to start?

NaCl(I don't think that will go over too well)H2O

Maybe they could get Tokina to let them make their version of the 16-28mm f2.8 as they shared some designs in the past. I have one in Canon mount and it is excellent on 24x36mm. They would also need a good 70 or 80-200mm f2.8 in addition to the 28-70mm f2.8 I really think they need to work on a better in lens focus motor and rework some of the old designs as some may not be good on digital. Pentax told me some of the old designs for film may not be good on digital after I sent them my FA*300mm f2.8 to check out. (mostly B.S. I think)

I will say the 31mm, 43mm and 77mm would probably be great through that nice big viewfinder.

Bob TN · 10-19-2011, 06:26 PM

I would dearly love a full frame system from Pentax. There are those who do not care so much for FF, but many of us do. But that's the beauty of selection, to each his own. I think if would be a really smart move for Pentax. Might be the only company that could pry my hands off my Nikon's for a while!

pentup · 10-19-2011, 06:42 PM

I don't suppose there's much chance that a full-frame Pentax would still have in-body stabilization, is there? I would think it'd be a problem in terms of weight and cost. Of course on full-frame there'd be less need, but still...

rawr · 10-19-2011, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by aragondina

I have used my 5dmkII at ISO3200, and still had better IQ and less noise than my K7 at ISO640

Perhaps you should have compared it's noise performance against a K-x then. As someone who once had to post-process (read 'help me fix up these horrible shots pls' ) about one hundred portraits shot in poor interior light by the 5D2, it can have big problems at 6400 and even 3200 ISO. The noise is there, esp in shadows, and it's of a character that is very hard to work with in post-processing, even if you have access to very good PP software. I was very surprised, especially as I knew the 5D2's DxoMark High ISO score was quite high.

Adam · 10-19-2011, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by pentup

I don't suppose there's much chance that a full-frame Pentax would still have in-body stabilization, is there? I would think it'd be a problem in terms of weight and cost. Of course on full-frame there'd be less need, but still...

If the APS-C bodies have it, the FF had better have it as well...

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)

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audiobomber · 10-19-2011, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Adam

If the APS-C bodies have it, the FF had better have it as well...

What FF?

Have they told you something more substantive than you've posted so far? I don't see any hint of a coming FF in the first post.

pentup · 10-19-2011, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Adam

If the APS-C bodies have it, the FF had better have it as well...

Here's a horrible thought: what if it doesn't, but instead Pentax decides to offer new lenses with stabilization. And then decides that future aps-c bodies wouldn't need it built-in either, since people could buy the new glass. They'd become more like Nikon, in other words. Horrors.

jsherman999 · 10-19-2011, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by pentup

Here's a horrible thought: what if it doesn't, but instead Pentax decides to offer new lenses with stabilization. And then decides that future aps-c bodies wouldn't need it built-in either, since people could buy the new glass. .

That is a possibility. Unlikely, though, I think.

jsherman999 · 10-19-2011, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

What FF?

Have they told you something more substantive than you've posted so far? I don't see any hint of a coming FF in the first post.

Getting kinda tense there, aintcha?

.

Spare Tire · 10-19-2011, 08:13 PM

Sooooo.... 12 pages and no letters.

**7samurai** · 10-19-2011, 08:16 PM

Is it possible to squeese in a full-frame sensor in the k-5 body?

I know heat would be a concern, but is it possible?
I really like the size of my Pentax.

7samurai

p.s. this thread is growing way to fast, I finally got to the end. I thought I would never catch up.

rvannatta · 10-19-2011, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by pentup

Here's a horrible thought: what if it doesn't, but instead Pentax decides to offer new lenses with stabilization. And then decides that future aps-c bodies wouldn't need it built-in either, since people could buy the new glass. They'd become more like Nikon, in other words. Horrors.

There would problably be a riot. A worse case scenario would be to drop support for the screw drive AF so it's SDM or turn it by hand. I was sure enough they were headed that way a few years ago, that I have bought SDM lenses whenever I had a chance
in lieu of alternatives, but since they haven't pushed the SDM into the low end lenses, I think it's less likely now.

I had sort of thought that the SDM would percolate to the entire lens family, and then Screw drive support
would disappear from the low end camera body so you had to buy the top of the line body to get screw support for the older lens family. Somehow I think this is unlikely now.

**maxfield_photo** · 10-19-2011, 09:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Spare Tire

Sooooo.... 12 pages and no letters.

Well in Adam's defense, this thread has exploded into 12 pages in within 28 hours. Who knew this was such a touchy subject? Oh wait...

But I've gotta wonder, if this all come to fruition, what the hell will we talk about then?

10-19-2011, 07:47 PM	#175
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by pentup Here's a horrible thought: what if it doesn't, but instead Pentax decides to offer new lenses with stabilization. And then decides that future aps-c bodies wouldn't need it built-in either, since people could buy the new glass. . That is a possibility. Unlikely, though, I think. Last edited by jsherman999; 10-19-2011 at 08:07 PM.

10-19-2011, 08:16 PM	#178
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	full frame in a k-5? Is it possible to squeese in a full-frame sensor in the k-5 body? I know heat would be a concern, but is it possible? I really like the size of my Pentax. 7samurai p.s. this thread is growing way to fast, I finally got to the end. I thought I would never catch up. Last edited by 7samurai; 10-19-2011 at 08:17 PM. Reason: comment

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10-19-2011, 05:40 PM	#166
Septrain Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: 1° North of Equator Photos: Gallery Posts: 202	I have been waiting for Pentax FF DSLR ever since laid my hands on K1000 back in 1976. At least, Pentax now understand the power of Marketing.

10-19-2011, 05:52 PM	#167
aragondina Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 117	Originally posted by Asahiflex Congratulations with your 5D MkII! Too bad about the readout noise in dark areas (even at ISO 100) and the banding at higher ISO's, both of which the K-5 does not suffer from. Still the 5D MkII is a great tool, although it does not win from the K-5 in pure IQ. Spoken like a true fanboy. I have used my 5dmkII at ISO3200, and still had better IQ and less noise than my K7 at ISO640. The K5 may be a good camera, but looking at the RAW files head to head, there is no comparison. Even at ISO6400 the 5D wins, and I have yet to see any issues with banding (and I had a K10d, I know what banding is) The 5D has comparable noise, just a tad less than the k5, but also more detail due to less NR being applied to the RAW file. Sadly the K5, and any APSC sensor will lose against a full frame anyday. They almost got there, but this new ff sensor will most likely blow away any gains APSC made against FF. Now if Ricoh does right and turns the R&D department loose and lets them develop products the public have been asking for they may (hopefully) be on the right track and can become a major player again. Originally posted by Asahiflex Apparently Canon surrendered and chose not to compete with the 645D. They have no answer to the pure IQ the 645D provides. We have yet to see what the new 1Dx will do as far as IQ, yes they didn't produce the 36mp monster that was rumoured, but the 1Dx will most likely beat the 645D in every category except resolution. So except in very large prints I doubt anyone will see any measurable difference. The 1Dx will do it faster, cheaper, and with a huge lens selection (the 645 still only has 2 lenses in the lineup right?) And I have an answer for the "pure IQ the 645D provides" I can do it in one word ..... Hasselblad

10-19-2011, 06:08 PM	#168
borno Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: md-usa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,580	Originally posted by NaClH2O An $800 Q is a completely different beast than a $2500 + FF. Can you imagine that anyone who would put out that kind of money for that kind of camera would even remotely consider a "toy" lens?! No they will want the FF equivalent of the DA* 16-50 and the DA* 50-135. At the very least. Granted they might be able to dust off the FA* 28-70 F/2.8 but they would have to weather seal it and outfit it with SDM or some sort of in lens focus motor. That wouldn't be inconsiderable R&D costs. And there is no older equivalent to the DA* 50-135. So you are going to try to sell a $2500 or more camera with one professional zoom lens to start? NaCl(I don't think that will go over too well)H2O Maybe they could get Tokina to let them make their version of the 16-28mm f2.8 as they shared some designs in the past. I have one in Canon mount and it is excellent on 24x36mm. They would also need a good 70 or 80-200mm f2.8 in addition to the 28-70mm f2.8 I really think they need to work on a better in lens focus motor and rework some of the old designs as some may not be good on digital. Pentax told me some of the old designs for film may not be good on digital after I sent them my FA*300mm f2.8 to check out. (mostly B.S. I think) I will say the 31mm, 43mm and 77mm would probably be great through that nice big viewfinder.

10-19-2011, 06:26 PM	#169
Bob TN New Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Photos: Albums Posts: 18	I would dearly love a full frame system from Pentax. There are those who do not care so much for FF, but many of us do. But that's the beauty of selection, to each his own. I think if would be a really smart move for Pentax. Might be the only company that could pry my hands off my Nikon's for a while!

10-19-2011, 06:42 PM	#170
pentup Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Flushing NY Photos: Albums Posts: 413	I don't suppose there's much chance that a full-frame Pentax would still have in-body stabilization, is there? I would think it'd be a problem in terms of weight and cost. Of course on full-frame there'd be less need, but still...

10-19-2011, 06:58 PM	#171
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by aragondina I have used my 5dmkII at ISO3200, and still had better IQ and less noise than my K7 at ISO640 Perhaps you should have compared it's noise performance against a K-x then. As someone who once had to post-process (read 'help me fix up these horrible shots pls' ) about one hundred portraits shot in poor interior light by the 5D2, it can have big problems at 6400 and even 3200 ISO. The noise is there, esp in shadows, and it's of a character that is very hard to work with in post-processing, even if you have access to very good PP software. I was very surprised, especially as I knew the 5D2's DxoMark High ISO score was quite high.

10-19-2011, 07:05 PM	#172
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594 Original Poster	Originally posted by pentup I don't suppose there's much chance that a full-frame Pentax would still have in-body stabilization, is there? I would think it'd be a problem in terms of weight and cost. Of course on full-frame there'd be less need, but still... If the APS-C bodies have it, the FF had better have it as well... Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

10-19-2011, 07:18 PM	#173
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Adam If the APS-C bodies have it, the FF had better have it as well... What FF? Have they told you something more substantive than you've posted so far? I don't see any hint of a coming FF in the first post.

10-19-2011, 07:21 PM	#174
pentup Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Flushing NY Photos: Albums Posts: 413	Originally posted by Adam If the APS-C bodies have it, the FF had better have it as well... Here's a horrible thought: what if it doesn't, but instead Pentax decides to offer new lenses with stabilization. And then decides that future aps-c bodies wouldn't need it built-in either, since people could buy the new glass. They'd become more like Nikon, in other words. Horrors.

10-19-2011, 08:06 PM	#176
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by audiobomber What FF? Have they told you something more substantive than you've posted so far? I don't see any hint of a coming FF in the first post. Getting kinda tense there, aintcha? .

10-19-2011, 08:13 PM	#177
Spare Tire Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Montréal Posts: 118	Sooooo.... 12 pages and no letters.

10-19-2011, 08:18 PM	#179
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Originally posted by pentup Here's a horrible thought: what if it doesn't, but instead Pentax decides to offer new lenses with stabilization. And then decides that future aps-c bodies wouldn't need it built-in either, since people could buy the new glass. They'd become more like Nikon, in other words. Horrors. There would problably be a riot. A worse case scenario would be to drop support for the screw drive AF so it's SDM or turn it by hand. I was sure enough they were headed that way a few years ago, that I have bought SDM lenses whenever I had a chance in lieu of alternatives, but since they haven't pushed the SDM into the low end lenses, I think it's less likely now. I had sort of thought that the SDM would percolate to the entire lens family, and then Screw drive support would disappear from the low end camera body so you had to buy the top of the line body to get screw support for the older lens family. Somehow I think this is unlikely now.

10-19-2011, 09:17 PM - 1 Like	#180
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Originally posted by Spare Tire Sooooo.... 12 pages and no letters. Well in Adam's defense, this thread has exploded into 12 pages in within 28 hours. Who knew this was such a touchy subject? Oh wait... But I've gotta wonder, if this all come to fruition, what the hell will we talk about then?