[maxfield_photo]

Btw, Thanks Adam for your efforts. I don't think the naysayers get the point of all this. Whether Pentax goes for it or not at least they know that there is demand for FF bodies and this MAY prompt them to look into it.

+1

Not only does it make a strong statement about the demand for full frame, but it comes from the two largest Pentax communities on the web (that I know of anyway). Who knows, they may even be eavesdropping on this very thread.

The business world in the last few years has begun to pay close attention to what they call "promoters and detractors." Here you have an enormous group of promoters who can articulate exactly what they desire in completely unambiguous terms. Try extrapolating that from a market survey of average folks on the street.

Sure, maybe we aren't representative of the camera buying population at large, and the marketing department will certainly have to take that into consideration, but we are the promoters. Our opinions will have a big influence on the lay person's camera buying decision. I mean really, who walks into a brick-and-mortar store anymore and just asks the clerk to make a recommendation? People do their homework, especially when buying something as important as a full frame DSLR.

[angus]

This is all too much like wishful thinking - the market wanted small and colours - in Japan - the market got small and colours. Hey what # of FF-DSLRs are being sold worldwide? I don't know these figures but a DSLR-forum is an unlikely representation of a market - it's like asking HiFi-Vodoo-enthusiasts whether the global market wants golden cables - no, a minority wants it and if price and demand match here goes.

The demand for a Pentax FF-camera might be 10,000 units/year, possibly even 20,000 units/year - far too few to warrant the development. Worldwide sales of ff-DSLR can be estimated at less than 1 million as worldwide total sales of interchangeable lens cameras (incl. mirrorless) was estimated to reach around 10 million in 2010. Going by Japanese market figures of these there are less than 10 per cent fullframe cameras and the market is dominated with >90 per cent by CaNikon, i.e. 900,000 pieces following the above reasoning. That leaves the 100,000 pieces of Leica, Sony and possibly Fuji (?). And here comes Pentax with roughly 6 per cent of total market share, i.e. 600,000 pieces and will sell a reasonable amount of ff-cameras? For me these numbers don't work out unless you can charge a premium (like Leica) - if not you're
a) not likely to succeed
b) more likely to ruin your business by such an investment

By producing top notch lenses one could at least avoid the need to release a new model every 2-3 years, but even that was not done so far (in case anybody wants to sell long lenses - Clinton!! can you hear me? - I would like to add to my 300/2.8 A* and 400/5.6 645). I'd rather see those old calculations renewed with adjustments to the glass (there was something about too high levels of radiation in the old glass) than a ff-DSLR.

But keep hoping, perhaps Ricoh is going to spend more than Hoya - who after all financed the 645D development...

[patricksaville30]

I saved up for years to get the best bang for my buck. Early on I knew it had to be a Pentax. Not because they are the big boys, but because they are the underdogs, and I recognise what they are trying to do for photographers like me. Now that I have a K7, I find myself thinking like most humans...what next? Full Frame? Nope. I think it's nice to want, but I think I'll find those emotions that made me love photography in the first place. It would be nice to know there was always something to aspire to, like a FF.

[sandilands]

Like all mergers and acquisitions, the resulting organization will need to examine the complete product line (including P&S, Ricoh branded, Pentax branded, Q, etc.) and determine their product positioning competitively. Frankly years of neglect have left Pentax as a marginal player with only limited success in some niche markets and their installed base. Copying Nikon and Canon will get them nowhere. Innovation and quality optics will.

Not that Pop Photo is a credible source of much, but it is interesting how the Sony A77 was touted as the best APS-C camera ever tested. Not surprising. Sony took the best optics from Minolta-Konica, merged it with their proven success in electronics and product innovation, and is becoming a significant alternative to Canikon. It is also interesting that the third party lens manufacturers (Tamron, Tokina) previously introduced new products with Canon, Nikon and Pentax mounts. More recently, their new products have Canon, Nikon and Sony mounts. Sony's Achille's heal is their total disregard for industry standards (witness Betamax, memory stick, hotshoe) and their arrogant pricing strategy.

A possible positioning strategy for the Ricoh- Pentax Imaging Company would be to place the Pentax brand at the high end and specialty markets (underwater, 645, etc.). Use the Ricoh brand for P&S, ILC, entry level DSLR, and as an interesting idea, a test bed for innovative technology. In this scenario I could see the introduction of a full frame pro level camera, but it certainly shouldn't be their highest priority. They have more significant competitive gaps than carving out market share in the very small Canon 5DmkII space.

My advice (for what it is worth) to Ricoh-Pentax is to impress the market (like Sony has) with breakthrough quality improvements of the optical path in the larger APS-C market. The K5 is an excellent platform for this strategy. Their R&D dollars (or Yen) will be best spent on industry leading resolution, noise reduction, low light autofocus, and K-mount lenses. Maybe at some time in the future, FF will be their biggest competitive disadvantage. I hope they can survive until it is.

[angus]

I fully agree - after all they're out there to make money and not lose it

[richard balonglong]

What exactly is great news?

Getting a reply from the company is great news. hehe. Well, the greatest news would be if they really listen and care about the FF system.

[wacrider]

In looking at the market at this point in time, it's pretty apparent that the focus is tending towards mirror-less bodies in smaller sizes with expected sales of smaller lenses. Now, while this segment may become overpopulated, there must be some reason manufacturers are moving in that direction. It's not that they don't do market place studies. But I feel in the long run that what your likely to see and which already has proven its numbers is upgraded cell phones with better imaging. This will continue to undercut the sales of cameras that in the same price range have no ability to make a call or text a message. For these people it is all about sharing and doing it easily and instantly. Stand alone cameras on the other hand will continue to be popular but probably at some reduced sales levels in certain prices ranges, and pro level equipment will probably continue to sell it's numbers but in brands always used by Pro's. Outside Canon and Nikon, Sony is coming on real strong and I doubt that there will be much room left for Pentax in FF SLR's at levels for return. R&D while maybe able to shoehorn a FF into an existing body, if it were to have to completely R&D a new body would not be worth it. Especially since it's adventure in MF, a PRO body. I think the time when everyone could sell a ton of $1k to $1500 bodies is about over. Sony has now moving to capture that market in FF, albeit the cameras are not at the abilities of much higher priced FF models from other manufacturers, but give it time and they'll make much in-roads there at reduced pricing. Pentax would have to compete with Sony and Canikon will notice and produce cheaper FF's as well. Then R&D cost will really take a bite into possibilities. I believe if anything Pentax would sooner go FF mirror-less to sell new lenses and offset the increased costs of R&D.

[climit]

Hm, I was for megapixels BUT ... looking at those D1x high iso's ! Well, at FF we could have usable 3500 iso (instead of 1100). Hm, hm ...

[alexcox]

What is the point of Pentax making a full-frame camera when they make the 645D (better than any full-frame camera from Nikon or Canon) and non-digital 645s are inexpensive?
Most of my lenses are for APS-C so I'll gain no benefit unless I buy a lot of expensive new glass, which I can't afford to do.
Better, perhaps, for Pentax and Ricoh to concentrate on improving the K-5, for example by introducing a better video codec than Motion JPEG.

[lurchlarson]

I agree that the market is moving toward mirror-less and with rumors of Panasonic and Olympus putting out a professional mirror less solution this winter, I think that trend is only going to accelerate. Imagine the buzz Pentax would create if they created a mirrorless FF? As long as Pentax sells an adapter that allows us to use our current lenses I think that it would be great.

Mirrorless has a number of distinct advantages over traditional DSLR. As soon as they got the high ISO and focus speed ironed out as well as the EVF (which Sony looks to have addressed in the A77) there are no advantages to traditional DSLR. In 10 years everything will be mirrorless. Mirrorless is making up more and more of the interchangable lens market and it's only a matter of time before companies make a wholesale switch. I suspect Olympus will make the switch within 2-3 years. Now that I think about it Panasonic has always been mirrorless...

My main hesitation with Pentax making the switch is having to buy all new lenses if they switch the mount. Other than that...if it has the same capabilities as my DSLR and fits in a smaller packaged, I'm all for it.

[Riebs]

This letter is well written and thoughtful. Hopefully, Pentax/Ricoh does the necessary due diligence and comes to the same conclusion. I recently received an M9 as my retirement gift. I had a Minolta CLE withe both Rokkor and Zeiss lenses. The M9 is FF. It is amazing how much difference the sensor size seems to make. I love everything about my two K5s, and all my Pentax lenses. Your letter would seem to give us two camera users the best of all worlds in one camera. Thanks for your effort on behalf of all Pentax owners.

[PedroSimao]

Dear Sirs

I agree with all you have said so far, but what about film photography?
I am the lucky owner of a Pentax ME Super - I've been in the brand for more than 20 years - and of a Pentax 67 II, so I place this question: why is Pentax neglecting film photography? as far as I known, there is no fil camera in Pentax's catalogue

I should highligth that a competitor - Fuji - recentely launched two new and fantastic models of film cameras, and that Kodak is still investing in film research.

best regards

P

[sandilands]

It is amazing how much difference the sensor size seems to make.

I would suggest that your satisfaction with your new camera has very little to do with sensor size.

[sandilands]

Hm, I was for megapixels BUT ... looking at those D1x high iso's ! Well, at FF we could have usable 3500 iso (instead of 1100). Hm, hm ...

Sensor technology and down stream electronics are why the D1X produces less noise at high ISO. Other than how densely the array is packed, megapixels, noise, and frame size are mutually exclusive.

[cali92rs]

What is the point of Pentax making a full-frame camera when they make the 645D (better than any full-frame camera from Nikon or Canon) and non-digital 645s are inexpensive?

I wouldn't say the 645D is better than any FF from CaNikon...i would say DIFFERENT than. I sure wouldnt want to photograph a football game with a 645D.