Pentax Full Frame - An official statement from Pentax (they listened!)

Pentax Convert · 11-25-2011, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

Same 50 people, checking the thread over and over.

ROTFL!

Winder · 11-25-2011, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Is the 7D crippled? Nope, I wouldn't say so - on the contrary, the higher priced 5D MkII is (sort of).
Is the D300s crippled? Nope; it's just outdated, waiting for a replacement. I wouldn't care D700 crippled either.

Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ. Even though it is possible as the K-5 is able to come very close. It is hard to call the 7D crippled because it is one of the newest cameras that Canon has released and it is the first "PRO" APS-C body from Canon.

We will have to wait until the 5DIII comes out and see how its HD video compares to the new EOS HD body that has not been released. I guess is now that Canon has all of these HD video guys hooked they will introduce a higher line HD video body and the 5DIII will be crippled to encourage these users to step up. The 7DII will be the new entry point for Canon HD video users. The 1Ds series and the 5D series will merge. Canon's line is in transition so we really don't know, but Canon has a long history of crippling features and body construction to protect higher line cameras. Often they skip on simple things that can be added with firmware and cost nothing in production.

The D300s is not what is crippled. Nikon could have released the D400 with the new sensor instead of the D7000. They could have given Nikon users a D400 with the 16MP sensor, but they didn't. I think a lot of Nikon users would have been trilled with a D400 with the new 16MP sensor. Instead Nikon gave then a cheap body and a good sensor. It is the D7000 that is crippled to keep from stealing sales from the outdated D300s.... Nikon is protecting the outdated D300s. When the D400 arrives it will have the new 24MP sensor, but is that really better?

Kunzite · 11-26-2011, 01:45 AM

"Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ" - if it would be that easy, there would be no need for full frame. Canon doesn't "cripple" the 7D's image quality; it naturally sits below FF.

In which way is the D7000 crippled? Just because it's not a D400? Come on...

RonHendriks1966 · 11-26-2011, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ. Even though it is possible as the K-5 is able to come very close. It is hard to call the 7D crippled because it is one of the newest cameras that Canon has released and it is the first "PRO" APS-C body from Canon.

Well the 7D was developed in the midds of the megapixelrace and I have the feeling that Canon at the moment would have chosen different and would have stopt at 16 megapixels that make a better sensor.

Ben_Edict · 11-26-2011, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by Fontan

Status quo on dslr is fine. In fact, maybe they should abandon dslr altogether, as it is a dying breed. I am sure they make more money from P & S and other "non enthusiast" items. Although I must admit, the dslr k-x was a hit but hardly an enthusiast model. A solid line of pro equipment is good for PR, but overall not a magic bullet for a stagnant company like Pentax. Spending limited resources on developing FF model sounds fiscally stupid.

645d is an unique situation, however. But this is hardly the predominant needs of the majority of forum members here.

Now that Olympus has stumbled, they should pour more of their resources to medical equipment division. 75% market share dominance on endo and bronchoscope can crumble - something nobody saw coming.

I cannot see DSLR being a "dying breed". There will certainly be changes to their technology and appearance (EVF being cheaper than optical finders), but Pentax switching to compacts would be a desaster. They had some nice modells in the p&s department, but nothing ever really competitive. The IQ of the Pentax compacts was always so, so and nothing to rave about and the functionality quite limited, compared to any other better p&s from Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Casio and, well, Ricoh etc.

If Pentax has anythiong to offer and to gain from the photographic market, it is based around DSLRs.

Ben

Winder · 11-26-2011, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

"Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ" - if it would be that easy, there would be no need for full frame. Canon doesn't "cripple" the 7D's image quality; it naturally sits below FF.

In which way is the D7000 crippled? Just because it's not a D400? Come on...

Both Nikon and Canon have bloated product lines. Maybe not as bad an Sony, but Sony is a consumer electronics company first and a camera company second or third. Canon will probably add 2 more full frame bodies besides the 1Dx this year. One being for the HD video crown, a new 5DIII, and possibly a 3rd FF body if the new 18MP FF sensor finds its way into a smaller FF body.

Yes, the D7000 is crippled. There are several things Nikon could have done to the D7000 that would not have cost any more money to make it a better camera, but they chose not to because it would take sales away from the D300s.

Canon has talked about the 5DII taking sales from the 1Ds line and that is why we are seeing the 5D line and the 1Ds line merging. The Nikon D700 does take sales away from the D3. Things like adding a second card slot cost literally pennies, but those are the features companies pull out of lower models to make the higher lines (higher margins) more attractive.

One of the good things about Pentax is that they don't have multiple lines and they don't strip features. The K-5 has the best technology Pentax has. The the K-5 replacement will have the same.

Kunzite · 11-26-2011, 10:42 AM

But Pentax would not have a bloated product line, just by adding one FF camera. There would be no need for their high-end APS-C to be crippled in any way, as Canikon don't have to cripple theirs (7D, D300s).

I disagree about the D7000; of course, it can't have everything the D300s has, because it's not designed to replace the D300s. But it's more or less as feature-rich as the K-5, so either it's not crippled, or both cameras are

**.a.t.** · 11-26-2011, 10:55 AM

!#!*&%#!! crippled K mount!

thibs · 11-26-2011, 01:26 PM

The crippled or not thingie is relative to other higher end models where one manufacturer does restrict from implementing a feature to protect sales from an upper model OR decides not to implement completely a previous standard.

A KX, KR etc cams ARE crippled (relative to K5) as is the D700 relative to the 'old' D300, the 5D relative to 1Ds etc.
This is a kind of protectionism and is always present with any kind of capitalism. Since we all live with capitalism (whether you like or not) we all have to deal with it.

And yes, K5 has a crippled K-mount, like it or not.

Originally posted by all thumbs

!#!*&%#!! crippled K mount!

Alas, Yes

**maxfield_photo** · 11-26-2011, 03:10 PM - **1 Like**

For my money "crippled" means intentionally choosing not to implement a feature that would add little or no cost to the camera simply to protect a higher model. There are "dormant" features on entry-level Canon and Nikon cameras that can be enabled by a firmware hack proving that those features were simply turned off to give users an incentive to upgrade. For instance incompatibility between the pop-up flash and proprietary speedlights in their entry level DLSRs. This is an example of "crippling" a camera.

The K-r could have been released with more functionality, weather sealing, and better IQ, but those changes would have increased the cost of the camera. Perhaps a benefit from Pentax's standpoint of not including those features is it gives users an excuse to upgrade to the K5, but it is not the primary motivation for excluding them; cost is.

Kunzite · 11-26-2011, 03:51 PM

Indeed; just because a lower tier camera is, well, a lower tier camera doesn't make it "crippled". We'd all want to have everything for entry level prices; it won't happen.
IMO the D7000 is a very good camera and so far nobody said why (as in: pointing the exact features) it would be "crippled". Note that the D7000 is not the Nikon's high-end APS-C, and my point was that a high-end APS-C doesn't have to be crippled just because the same company has FF cameras as well.

Chex · 11-26-2011, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by maxfield_photo

The K-r could have been released with more functionality, weather sealing, and better IQ, but those changes would have increased the cost of the camera. Perhaps a benefit from Pentax's standpoint of not including those features is it gives users an excuse to upgrade to the K5, but it is not the primary motivation for excluding them; cost is.

I think simply the weather sealing alone is a big stepping stone for an upgrade.. if they had a nice weather sealed K-r, the only thing I think I'd really miss on the K-5 would be the 7 FPS and maybe the high ISO performance.. but the K-r is no slouch there either.

Kryscendo · 11-27-2011, 03:38 AM

I see why not make all their DSLRs weather sealed? It really would only affect the entry level cameras and while it may cost some more, I think it would go a long way to solidifying even the entry level cameras as more real or substantial.

Kunzite · 11-27-2011, 04:40 AM

Not the entry level cameras, I don't think it would work. "Oh, it's weather sealed? What does it means? That Canikon is cheaper, can I have it?"
But maybe everything else should be at least weather resistant (including lenses and accessories).

Alizarine · 11-27-2011, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by Kryscendo

I see why not make all their DSLRs weather sealed?

Pentax did that with the K200D and it didn't make as big a splash as they might have thought it would. They stripped the weather-sealing and released the K-m/K2000, nothing much again. They upgraded the insides (then colored the outside) and released it as the K-x - and boom, sales went up. I wish the K-x and K-r were weather-sealed, but then again if it would cost more, some (if not a lot) will of course be deterred from buying, because few entry-level buyers really care (or know) about that feature...

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Full frame pentax	cem.kumuk	Pentax DSLR Discussion	11	11-12-2010 03:13 PM
Pentax and Full Frame...	Shutter-bug	Photographic Technique	60	11-03-2010 10:03 AM
Pentax A 50/1.2 on Full Frame	aegisphan	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	23	10-28-2010 04:16 PM
News Regarding Advertising on PentaxForums.com: An Official Statement	Adam	Site Suggestions and Help	5	03-24-2010 07:37 PM
Official: New DSLR Body is Coming; Full Frame Model is Under Planning!	RiceHigh	Pentax News and Rumors	78	08-04-2008 06:18 PM

11-25-2011, 02:56 PM	#1456
Pentax Convert Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Photos: Albums Posts: 57	Originally posted by mattdm Same 50 people, checking the thread over and over. ROTFL!

11-25-2011, 05:37 PM	#1457
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Kunzite Is the 7D crippled? Nope, I wouldn't say so - on the contrary, the higher priced 5D MkII is (sort of). Is the D300s crippled? Nope; it's just outdated, waiting for a replacement. I wouldn't care D700 crippled either. Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ. Even though it is possible as the K-5 is able to come very close. It is hard to call the 7D crippled because it is one of the newest cameras that Canon has released and it is the first "PRO" APS-C body from Canon. We will have to wait until the 5DIII comes out and see how its HD video compares to the new EOS HD body that has not been released. I guess is now that Canon has all of these HD video guys hooked they will introduce a higher line HD video body and the 5DIII will be crippled to encourage these users to step up. The 7DII will be the new entry point for Canon HD video users. The 1Ds series and the 5D series will merge. Canon's line is in transition so we really don't know, but Canon has a long history of crippling features and body construction to protect higher line cameras. Often they skip on simple things that can be added with firmware and cost nothing in production. The D300s is not what is crippled. Nikon could have released the D400 with the new sensor instead of the D7000. They could have given Nikon users a D400 with the 16MP sensor, but they didn't. I think a lot of Nikon users would have been trilled with a D400 with the new 16MP sensor. Instead Nikon gave then a cheap body and a good sensor. It is the D7000 that is crippled to keep from stealing sales from the outdated D300s.... Nikon is protecting the outdated D300s. When the D400 arrives it will have the new 24MP sensor, but is that really better?

11-26-2011, 01:45 AM	#1458
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	"Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ" - if it would be that easy, there would be no need for full frame. Canon doesn't "cripple" the 7D's image quality; it naturally sits below FF. In which way is the D7000 crippled? Just because it's not a D400? Come on...

11-26-2011, 03:24 AM	#1459
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Winder Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ. Even though it is possible as the K-5 is able to come very close. It is hard to call the 7D crippled because it is one of the newest cameras that Canon has released and it is the first "PRO" APS-C body from Canon. Well the 7D was developed in the midds of the megapixelrace and I have the feeling that Canon at the moment would have chosen different and would have stopt at 16 megapixels that make a better sensor.

11-26-2011, 07:11 AM	#1460
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by Fontan Status quo on dslr is fine. In fact, maybe they should abandon dslr altogether, as it is a dying breed. I am sure they make more money from P & S and other "non enthusiast" items. Although I must admit, the dslr k-x was a hit but hardly an enthusiast model. A solid line of pro equipment is good for PR, but overall not a magic bullet for a stagnant company like Pentax. Spending limited resources on developing FF model sounds fiscally stupid. 645d is an unique situation, however. But this is hardly the predominant needs of the majority of forum members here. Now that Olympus has stumbled, they should pour more of their resources to medical equipment division. 75% market share dominance on endo and bronchoscope can crumble - something nobody saw coming. I cannot see DSLR being a "dying breed". There will certainly be changes to their technology and appearance (EVF being cheaper than optical finders), but Pentax switching to compacts would be a desaster. They had some nice modells in the p&s department, but nothing ever really competitive. The IQ of the Pentax compacts was always so, so and nothing to rave about and the functionality quite limited, compared to any other better p&s from Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Casio and, well, Ricoh etc. If Pentax has anythiong to offer and to gain from the photographic market, it is based around DSLRs. Ben

11-26-2011, 10:22 AM	#1461
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Kunzite "Canon will never allow the 7D series to rival the 5D series IQ" - if it would be that easy, there would be no need for full frame. Canon doesn't "cripple" the 7D's image quality; it naturally sits below FF. In which way is the D7000 crippled? Just because it's not a D400? Come on... Both Nikon and Canon have bloated product lines. Maybe not as bad an Sony, but Sony is a consumer electronics company first and a camera company second or third. Canon will probably add 2 more full frame bodies besides the 1Dx this year. One being for the HD video crown, a new 5DIII, and possibly a 3rd FF body if the new 18MP FF sensor finds its way into a smaller FF body. Yes, the D7000 is crippled. There are several things Nikon could have done to the D7000 that would not have cost any more money to make it a better camera, but they chose not to because it would take sales away from the D300s. Canon has talked about the 5DII taking sales from the 1Ds line and that is why we are seeing the 5D line and the 1Ds line merging. The Nikon D700 does take sales away from the D3. Things like adding a second card slot cost literally pennies, but those are the features companies pull out of lower models to make the higher lines (higher margins) more attractive. One of the good things about Pentax is that they don't have multiple lines and they don't strip features. The K-5 has the best technology Pentax has. The the K-5 replacement will have the same.

11-26-2011, 10:42 AM	#1462
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	But Pentax would not have a bloated product line, just by adding one FF camera. There would be no need for their high-end APS-C to be crippled in any way, as Canikon don't have to cripple theirs (7D, D300s). I disagree about the D7000; of course, it can't have everything the D300s has, because it's not designed to replace the D300s. But it's more or less as feature-rich as the K-5, so either it's not crippled, or both cameras are

11-26-2011, 10:55 AM	#1463
.a.t. Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: yesterday Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,261	!#!*&%#!! crippled K mount!

11-26-2011, 01:26 PM	#1464
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	The crippled or not thingie is relative to other higher end models where one manufacturer does restrict from implementing a feature to protect sales from an upper model OR decides not to implement completely a previous standard. A KX, KR etc cams ARE crippled (relative to K5) as is the D700 relative to the 'old' D300, the 5D relative to 1Ds etc. This is a kind of protectionism and is always present with any kind of capitalism. Since we all live with capitalism (whether you like or not) we all have to deal with it. And yes, K5 has a crippled K-mount, like it or not. Originally posted by all thumbs !#!*&%#!! crippled K mount! Alas, Yes

11-26-2011, 03:10 PM - 1 Like	#1465
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	For my money "crippled" means intentionally choosing not to implement a feature that would add little or no cost to the camera simply to protect a higher model. There are "dormant" features on entry-level Canon and Nikon cameras that can be enabled by a firmware hack proving that those features were simply turned off to give users an incentive to upgrade. For instance incompatibility between the pop-up flash and proprietary speedlights in their entry level DLSRs. This is an example of "crippling" a camera. The K-r could have been released with more functionality, weather sealing, and better IQ, but those changes would have increased the cost of the camera. Perhaps a benefit from Pentax's standpoint of not including those features is it gives users an excuse to upgrade to the K5, but it is not the primary motivation for excluding them; cost is.

11-26-2011, 03:51 PM	#1466
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Indeed; just because a lower tier camera is, well, a lower tier camera doesn't make it "crippled". We'd all want to have everything for entry level prices; it won't happen. IMO the D7000 is a very good camera and so far nobody said why (as in: pointing the exact features) it would be "crippled". Note that the D7000 is not the Nikon's high-end APS-C, and my point was that a high-end APS-C doesn't have to be crippled just because the same company has FF cameras as well.

11-26-2011, 11:06 PM	#1467
Chex Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The 'Stoke, British Columbia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,678	Originally posted by maxfield_photo The K-r could have been released with more functionality, weather sealing, and better IQ, but those changes would have increased the cost of the camera. Perhaps a benefit from Pentax's standpoint of not including those features is it gives users an excuse to upgrade to the K5, but it is not the primary motivation for excluding them; cost is. I think simply the weather sealing alone is a big stepping stone for an upgrade.. if they had a nice weather sealed K-r, the only thing I think I'd really miss on the K-5 would be the 7 FPS and maybe the high ISO performance.. but the K-r is no slouch there either.

11-27-2011, 03:38 AM	#1468
Kryscendo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 222	I see why not make all their DSLRs weather sealed? It really would only affect the entry level cameras and while it may cost some more, I think it would go a long way to solidifying even the entry level cameras as more real or substantial.

11-27-2011, 04:40 AM	#1469
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Not the entry level cameras, I don't think it would work. "Oh, it's weather sealed? What does it means? That Canikon is cheaper, can I have it?" But maybe everything else should be at least weather resistant (including lenses and accessories).

11-27-2011, 06:20 AM	#1470
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by Kryscendo I see why not make all their DSLRs weather sealed? Pentax did that with the K200D and it didn't make as big a splash as they might have thought it would. They stripped the weather-sealing and released the K-m/K2000, nothing much again. They upgraded the insides (then colored the outside) and released it as the K-x - and boom, sales went up. I wish the K-x and K-r were weather-sealed, but then again if it would cost more, some (if not a lot) will of course be deterred from buying, because few entry-level buyers really care (or know) about that feature...