Pentax Full Frame - An official statement from Pentax (they listened!)

Anvh · 12-07-2011, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Pentax could make a 50-135 f/2 for APS-C that would be the same size as the 35-100 f/2. Both of those lenses are a telecentric design which adds to the size and cost. It would be a $2,000 zoom and there would not be a size or weight saving over the 70-200 f/2.8. Is that something that Pentax users would buy? If Pentax plans to make APS-C their "professional" option then I think they need to.

They could but not with the K-mount, the register is too long and the mount opening is too small, if they shoten the register distance and make a larger mount opening they should be able to do it.

Best thing is because the register and the mount will be shorter then Sony, Nikon and the Canon aps-C+ mounts it means that you can fit their lenses on it with an adapter.
Canon lenses would be hard because of the many electronics but Nikon and Sony don't differ too much from Pentax.
So the lenses you can use grows a lot and it's easier for other brand users to make the switch.

unfocused · 12-07-2011, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

Originally posted by falconeye You are a very modest person, as the equivalent to the FA 43/1.9 is a DA 28/1.2 with sharp corners wide open. For the price of one, I'd rather buy an FF body. That's one example which illustrates that APS-C can be too expensive. Nevertheless, my FA 31/1.8 is a good enough replacement on APS-C. But being another FA, it makes me wish for a DA 20/1.2 with sharp corners wide open ...

Anvh - Sigma is doing a 30mm f/1.4 for a reasonable price, if only pentax did that as well.

Pentax can do it better, smaller and lighter. Sigma's 30/1.4 is a lump and a poor performer. Their 28/1.8 is an even bigger lump. Who in their right mind wants to lug a 500g 'normal' lens with a 77mm front end? That's why I suggested a (more modest) 28/f2.8 to do the job of the FF 43 on APS-C.

**RuiC** · 12-07-2011, 03:59 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by aheadfordinci

Not that I could buy a digital FF, but I really hope that if they actually do it, Pentax would design something less cumbersome and more light than the mock up in the Facebook page.

That's not a mock up. It's real.

MZ-D

http://www.aohc.it/pressrelease/MR52e.htm

http://www.imaging-resource.com/EVENTS/PMAS01/982079635.html

Winder · 12-07-2011, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

They could but not with the K-mount, the register is too long and the mount opening is too small, if they shoten the register distance and make a larger mount opening they should be able to do it.

Best thing is because the register and the mount will be shorter then Sony, Nikon and the Canon aps-C+ mounts it means that you can fit their lenses on it with an adapter.
Canon lenses would be hard because of the many electronics but Nikon and Sony don't differ too much from Pentax.
So the lenses you can use grows a lot and it's easier for other brand users to make the switch.

Doesn't a telecentric lens design take care of the smaller mount opening? The light path will be altered to travel perpendicular to the sensor even at the edges. The mount should not be an issue and you would get significantly sharper edges. I'm not sure I understand the issue of making the 50-135mm 1 stop faster. We are using a FF mount with an APS-C sensor. The A* 135mm F/1.8 does not suffer from interference from the mount.

Winder · 12-07-2011, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by RuiC

That's not a mock up. It's real.

MZ-D

MR-52

NEWS! - Pentax EI-3000 and unnamed digital SLR - exclusive pics!

Pentax was making some ugly cameras back then.

rawr · 12-07-2011, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I stumbled across this new photo site (other forum): The 45 Most Powerful Images Of 2011
The demands for news- and sportsimages are at a very high standard on the Image Quality side. So if Pentax wants to go forward and have a place in the professional section for news- and (not directly professional) sportsimaging (wich also done a lot by local journalists with a lower budget) the there is a need for a next step to top the already very good IQ from K-5. That is a step beyond APS-C.

Any of those photos could have been taken with an APS-C camera. And most photo agencies - eg Getty - are happy to accept images (including sports images) shot with APS-C. Plus if you look at IQ objectively, using DxOMark measurements, the K-5 IQ is in the same league as most FF bodies today, or better.

Of course image quality isn't the sensor alone, but the glass too. Nikon and Canon have some awesome (and expensive) glass available for sports photogs. Pentax doesn't have the same range or quality of long glass in production at the moment. That can make a big difference, and will need to be addressed by Pentax if they want to move into various pro segments like sports.

RBellavance · 12-07-2011, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by RuiC

That's not a mock up. It's real.

And it's one of the ugliest and most unwieldy-looking cameras I've ever seen

Last edited by RBellavance; 12-07-2011 at 07:12 PM.

eddie1960 · 12-07-2011, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Class A

Why does Pentax need to do one as well? In what way do you want it to be different to the Sigma 30/1.4?

da* build would be a good reason. the sigma isn't wr

Kryscendo · 12-07-2011, 08:56 PM

I always felt the DA* series was missing primes. It has Zooms down. The 50-135 is amazingly good. If the 16-50 was inner focus and didn't protrude like it does, then it too would have been a solid 100% in my book. That being said, for primes there is a 50mm, a 200mm and a 300mm. A 30mm and an 85mm would have nicely rounded out that profile.

Now I feel like the DA* series is so old that they might just introduce a whole new lens line up rather than going back to add more to this series. I mean, they did so with the 645D and the Q.

aheadfordinci · 12-08-2011, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by RuiC

That's not a mock up. It's real.

MZ-D

MR-52

NEWS! - Pentax EI-3000 and unnamed digital SLR - exclusive pics!

Thank you for the links, I didn't knew it, and it even looks like - on paper - was a cool camera (except for the looks)
Anyway, I really would like that someday digital full frames would look a bit like a Spotmatic.

RonHendriks1966 · 12-08-2011, 11:54 AM

Just looked at it again on TV:

Commercial for Nex 5n

You Tube

I think that is a powerfool message! So to create a new advantage from dslr towards these small camera's I think winning in Image Quality is the only way to go! That needs a bigger sensor then APS-C.

Still in favor for APS-H, but I would settle for a Full Frame!

Chex · 12-08-2011, 12:26 PM

I think as a second body to wedge in the camera bag for those "just in case my K-5 has problems" it would be great.. throw a K-mount adapter and the Nex-5n, and it would probably only take up as much space as my K-5's battery grip and a 67mm filter case.. If the Nex-5n was weather sealed and a lot more rugged I could see it making major waves.. but as it is now, I wouldn't take one to nearly the same limits I take my K-5.

Unless Pentax does go FF/APS-H it will be harder for them to compete with the likes of the smaller form factor APS-C camera's as they evolve and will eventually get weather sealing and a good sized buffer and processor... I could see Pentax entering that arena too.. APS-C sensor in a mirrorless format with weather sealing.. But unless they are going to have some more smaller lenses that are the size of the DA limiteds it's kind of pointless to go with such a small body and keep a larger sized lens line. I wonder if they would try and move the Q lens line onto an APS-C sensor format..not sure if the Q-lenses could cover the sensor size (I doubt it).

I really think/hope they will push into bigger sensor sizes and re-release some updated FA glass as DFA's.

RXrenesis8 · 12-08-2011, 12:42 PM

For those who don't visit the front page but are interested in a FF pentax:

Quote:

We've once again teamed up with the Spanish Pentax camera site Pentaxeros.com and launched a page dedicated to users who would like to see Pentax release a full-frame camera. If you want to see a full-frame Pentax become a reality, simply "Like" this page. Hopefully, within a few weeks we'll have enough likes to be able to convince Pentax to make our dreams a reality.

jogiba · 12-08-2011, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Pentax was making some ugly cameras back then.

I liked this one.

**Pål Jensen** · 12-08-2011, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Chex

Unless Pentax does go FF/APS-H it will be harder for them to compete with the likes of the smaller form factor APS-C camera's as they evolve .

It is mistake to think that the success of various form of camera types has a direct link to sensor size. If anything, the trend is towards smaller sensors. APS is so good now you can print large murals from it. EVILS take customers from P&S something that is as expected because they were also bought because they were small (and cheap). Neither image quality, price or size points towards larger sensors in mass consumers cameras. Larger sensors will remain a niche and it is very unlikely that FF will ever reach a market share of more than ~5% of the DSLR market...

12-07-2011, 03:59 PM - 1 Like	#1728
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by aheadfordinci Not that I could buy a digital FF, but I really hope that if they actually do it, Pentax would design something less cumbersome and more light than the mock up in the Facebook page. That's not a mock up. It's real. MZ-D http://www.aohc.it/pressrelease/MR52e.htm http://www.imaging-resource.com/EVENTS/PMAS01/982079635.html Last edited by RuiC; 12-07-2011 at 04:07 PM.

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12-07-2011, 02:49 PM	#1726
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Winder Pentax could make a 50-135 f/2 for APS-C that would be the same size as the 35-100 f/2. Both of those lenses are a telecentric design which adds to the size and cost. It would be a $2,000 zoom and there would not be a size or weight saving over the 70-200 f/2.8. Is that something that Pentax users would buy? If Pentax plans to make APS-C their "professional" option then I think they need to. They could but not with the K-mount, the register is too long and the mount opening is too small, if they shoten the register distance and make a larger mount opening they should be able to do it. Best thing is because the register and the mount will be shorter then Sony, Nikon and the Canon aps-C+ mounts it means that you can fit their lenses on it with an adapter. Canon lenses would be hard because of the many electronics but Nikon and Sony don't differ too much from Pentax. So the lenses you can use grows a lot and it's easier for other brand users to make the switch.

12-07-2011, 03:46 PM	#1727
unfocused Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norfolk Posts: 85	Originally posted by Anvh Originally posted by falconeye You are a very modest person, as the equivalent to the FA 43/1.9 is a DA 28/1.2 with sharp corners wide open. For the price of one, I'd rather buy an FF body. That's one example which illustrates that APS-C can be too expensive. Nevertheless, my FA 31/1.8 is a good enough replacement on APS-C. But being another FA, it makes me wish for a DA 20/1.2 with sharp corners wide open ... Anvh - Sigma is doing a 30mm f/1.4 for a reasonable price, if only pentax did that as well. Pentax can do it better, smaller and lighter. Sigma's 30/1.4 is a lump and a poor performer. Their 28/1.8 is an even bigger lump. Who in their right mind wants to lug a 500g 'normal' lens with a 77mm front end? That's why I suggested a (more modest) 28/f2.8 to do the job of the FF 43 on APS-C.

12-07-2011, 04:11 PM	#1729
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Anvh They could but not with the K-mount, the register is too long and the mount opening is too small, if they shoten the register distance and make a larger mount opening they should be able to do it. Best thing is because the register and the mount will be shorter then Sony, Nikon and the Canon aps-C+ mounts it means that you can fit their lenses on it with an adapter. Canon lenses would be hard because of the many electronics but Nikon and Sony don't differ too much from Pentax. So the lenses you can use grows a lot and it's easier for other brand users to make the switch. Doesn't a telecentric lens design take care of the smaller mount opening? The light path will be altered to travel perpendicular to the sensor even at the edges. The mount should not be an issue and you would get significantly sharper edges. I'm not sure I understand the issue of making the 50-135mm 1 stop faster. We are using a FF mount with an APS-C sensor. The A* 135mm F/1.8 does not suffer from interference from the mount.

12-07-2011, 04:14 PM	#1730
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by RuiC That's not a mock up. It's real. MZ-D MR-52 NEWS! - Pentax EI-3000 and unnamed digital SLR - exclusive pics! Pentax was making some ugly cameras back then.

12-07-2011, 04:25 PM	#1731
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I stumbled across this new photo site (other forum): The 45 Most Powerful Images Of 2011 The demands for news- and sportsimages are at a very high standard on the Image Quality side. So if Pentax wants to go forward and have a place in the professional section for news- and (not directly professional) sportsimaging (wich also done a lot by local journalists with a lower budget) the there is a need for a next step to top the already very good IQ from K-5. That is a step beyond APS-C. Any of those photos could have been taken with an APS-C camera. And most photo agencies - eg Getty - are happy to accept images (including sports images) shot with APS-C. Plus if you look at IQ objectively, using DxOMark measurements, the K-5 IQ is in the same league as most FF bodies today, or better. Of course image quality isn't the sensor alone, but the glass too. Nikon and Canon have some awesome (and expensive) glass available for sports photogs. Pentax doesn't have the same range or quality of long glass in production at the moment. That can make a big difference, and will need to be addressed by Pentax if they want to move into various pro segments like sports.

12-07-2011, 04:55 PM	#1732
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by RuiC That's not a mock up. It's real. And it's one of the ugliest and most unwieldy-looking cameras I've ever seen Last edited by RBellavance; 12-07-2011 at 07:12 PM.

12-07-2011, 05:22 PM	#1733
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Class A Why does Pentax need to do one as well? In what way do you want it to be different to the Sigma 30/1.4? da* build would be a good reason. the sigma isn't wr

12-07-2011, 08:56 PM	#1734
Kryscendo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 222	I always felt the DA* series was missing primes. It has Zooms down. The 50-135 is amazingly good. If the 16-50 was inner focus and didn't protrude like it does, then it too would have been a solid 100% in my book. That being said, for primes there is a 50mm, a 200mm and a 300mm. A 30mm and an 85mm would have nicely rounded out that profile. Now I feel like the DA* series is so old that they might just introduce a whole new lens line up rather than going back to add more to this series. I mean, they did so with the 645D and the Q.

12-08-2011, 02:14 AM	#1735
aheadfordinci Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 99	Originally posted by RuiC That's not a mock up. It's real. MZ-D MR-52 NEWS! - Pentax EI-3000 and unnamed digital SLR - exclusive pics! Thank you for the links, I didn't knew it, and it even looks like - on paper - was a cool camera (except for the looks) Anyway, I really would like that someday digital full frames would look a bit like a Spotmatic.

12-08-2011, 12:26 PM	#1737
Chex Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The 'Stoke, British Columbia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,678	I think as a second body to wedge in the camera bag for those "just in case my K-5 has problems" it would be great.. throw a K-mount adapter and the Nex-5n, and it would probably only take up as much space as my K-5's battery grip and a 67mm filter case.. If the Nex-5n was weather sealed and a lot more rugged I could see it making major waves.. but as it is now, I wouldn't take one to nearly the same limits I take my K-5. Unless Pentax does go FF/APS-H it will be harder for them to compete with the likes of the smaller form factor APS-C camera's as they evolve and will eventually get weather sealing and a good sized buffer and processor... I could see Pentax entering that arena too.. APS-C sensor in a mirrorless format with weather sealing.. But unless they are going to have some more smaller lenses that are the size of the DA limiteds it's kind of pointless to go with such a small body and keep a larger sized lens line. I wonder if they would try and move the Q lens line onto an APS-C sensor format..not sure if the Q-lenses could cover the sensor size (I doubt it). I really think/hope they will push into bigger sensor sizes and re-release some updated FA glass as DFA's.

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12-08-2011, 12:42 PM	#1738
RXrenesis8 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Orlando, FL (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 523	For those who don't visit the front page but are interested in a FF pentax: Quote: We've once again teamed up with the Spanish Pentax camera site Pentaxeros.com and launched a page dedicated to users who would like to see Pentax release a full-frame camera. If you want to see a full-frame Pentax become a reality, simply "Like" this page. Hopefully, within a few weeks we'll have enough likes to be able to convince Pentax to make our dreams a reality.

12-08-2011, 01:28 PM	#1739
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by Winder Pentax was making some ugly cameras back then. I liked this one.

12-08-2011, 01:33 PM	#1740
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Chex Unless Pentax does go FF/APS-H it will be harder for them to compete with the likes of the smaller form factor APS-C camera's as they evolve . It is mistake to think that the success of various form of camera types has a direct link to sensor size. If anything, the trend is towards smaller sensors. APS is so good now you can print large murals from it. EVILS take customers from P&S something that is as expected because they were also bought because they were small (and cheap). Neither image quality, price or size points towards larger sensors in mass consumers cameras. Larger sensors will remain a niche and it is very unlikely that FF will ever reach a market share of more than ~5% of the DSLR market...