Pentax Full Frame - An official statement from Pentax (they listened!)

eddie1960 · 12-09-2011, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by ogl

It's just rumors and nothing else

Oh well then, we can just add an 80 mp FF 645D to the list

RonHendriks1966 · 12-09-2011, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

what no ff 645D

And no 16 megapixel APS-H

**Pål Jensen** · 12-09-2011, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Winder

The lens argument is not entirely valid. If I want to make an 85mm f/1.2 equivalent in APS-C I need 55mm f/1.0 lens. If I want to duplicate the A* 135mm f/1.8 I need a 90mm f/1.2. .

It is perfectly valid. The larger the format the larger the lenses. Various formats are not equal. You get less DOF at the same aperture at the same magnification with larger formats. That is one of the drawback with larger formats.

It is true that lenses for larger formats do not need to be as sharp those for smaller formats. But this is true only to a point. When the near future FF cameras will exceed 30mp you'll need som serious good opticts to make an advantage of it. Zoom lenses, which is 95% of lens sale, of adequate quality will be very expensive at this quality level. Especially if they are fast.

**Pål Jensen** · 12-09-2011, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by ogl

24 MP FF camera is planned to be launched in 2012.

I will buy one promtly....

Sinister · 12-09-2011, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Said by Pentax. Peter Fang says the same
Strictly rumor: Pentax 35mm full-frame DSLR and APS-C EVIL to come in 2012: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

It seems to me - 2012 will be the year of THREE (at least) new cameras from Pentax in higher league (I mean APS-C, FF and EVIL).

That made my heart jump! I am so looking forward to a Pentax FF - something I believed I would never be eager to have... but with my FA ltds, the game changed!

**Pål Jensen** · 12-09-2011, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Sinister

That made my heart jump! I am so looking forward to a Pentax FF - something I believed I would never be eager to have... but with my FA ltds, the game changed!

Just remember that OGL's track record in the rumor department is not spotless

I find 24mp to be more realistic for the next APS model; the K-3 perhaps?

Sinister · 12-09-2011, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Just remember that OGL's track record in the rumor department is not spotless

I find 24mp to be more realistic for the next APS model; the K-3 perhaps?

I am not that involved in rumors. Just looking for what suits my hopes and expectations

A 24mp APS would definetly not encourage me to upgrade from the K-5. I don't need more MP!

Winder · 12-09-2011, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

It is perfectly valid. The larger the format the larger the lenses. Various formats are not equal. You get less DOF at the same aperture at the same magnification with larger formats. That is one of the drawback with larger formats.

It is true that lenses for larger formats do not need to be as sharp those for smaller formats. But this is true only to a point. When the near future FF cameras will exceed 30mp you'll need som serious good opticts to make an advantage of it. Zoom lenses, which is 95% of lens sale, of adequate quality will be very expensive at this quality level. Especially if they are fast.

And with APS-C also pushing 30MP with 1/2 the sensor size they will need even sharper lenses than those FF 30MP cameras to achieve the same result. There is no free lunch. You are better off taking a 32MP FF and cropping it in post to achieve the results of a 16MP APS-C because then you have the best of both worlds.

And what will happen when we move to a technology that does not require a color/AA filter? We will have the equivalent of 100MP APS-C cameras. How do lenses stack up then?

ogl · 12-09-2011, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

And no 16 megapixel APS-H

You have 16 MP APS-C, why do you want APS-H?

Spag · 12-09-2011, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by ogl

You have 16 MP APS-C, why do you want APS-H?

For auto-vignetting on all DA lenses

eddie1960 · 12-09-2011, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by ogl

You have 16 MP APS-C, why do you want APS-H?

Go back through the thread he's stated it a few times. for everyone except Ron this is a FF thread, for Ron it's an APSH thread

16mp h should out resolve c and provide closer to the true FOV on ff lenses. should be better noise wise as well. I doubt it will ever happen though despite the new Kodak sensor being made. It is the biggest you can make without complex tech like FF requires so there is a good arguement for it

gazonk · 12-09-2011, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Winder

And with APS-C also pushing 30MP with 1/2 the sensor size they will need even sharper lenses than those FF 30MP cameras to achieve the same result. There is no free lunch. You are better off taking a 32MP FF and cropping it in post to achieve the results of a 16MP APS-C because then you have the best of both worlds.

Almost... you'll need a 36 MP FF camera will give a 1.5 crop area of 16MP - but isn't 36MP exactly what rumors say about the new Sony FF sensors? A cool feature would be to implement some fancy mask in the viewfinder (lcd overlay?) which crops each DA lens to its individually recommended maximum image circle.

(But even a 24mp FF gives you decent 1.5 crop images - at 10.7MP)

eddie1960 · 12-09-2011, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Spag

For auto-vignetting on all DA lenses

aside from the wides there would be no vignetting on H, most will work on ff for that matter. but 21 and wider will be problematic (including wider than 21 on the zooms) solvable by an auto crop function in camera as it would be on FF

eddie1960 · 12-09-2011, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Almost... you'll need a 36 MP FF camera will give a 1.5 crop area of 16MP - but isn't 36MP exactly what rumors say about the new Sony FF sensors? A cool feature would be to implement some fancy mask in the viewfinder (lcd overlay?) which crops each DA lens to its individually recommended maximum image circle.

(But even a 24mp FF gives you decent 1.5 crop images - at 10.7MP)

Sony is rumoured to have 2 new Ff sensors in the pipeline a 24mp and a 36mp. and 3 new FF cameras one of which will be MILC/NEX
To bad they think like an electronics company rather than a photographers company like Pentax (and Nikon for that matter)
If Pentax has the same sensor as the sony it likely will outperform the sony....and have the best UI

jsherman999 · 12-09-2011, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

It is perfectly valid. The larger the format the larger the lenses. Various formats are not equal. You get less DOF at the same aperture at the same magnification with larger formats. That is one of the drawback with larger formats.

really!

Actually it's one of the benefits of the larger format. You can always stop down to match the aps-c DOF if you need to, you can't always go the other way. This is why it's more accurately described as 'more DOF control', not 'less DOF'.

Quote:

It is true that lenses for larger formats do not need to be as sharp those for smaller formats. But this is true only to a point. When the near future FF cameras will exceed 30mp you'll need som serious good opticts to make an advantage of it. Zoom lenses,

Even more so when aps-c hits 24mp!

.

12-09-2011, 08:03 AM	#1773
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Winder The lens argument is not entirely valid. If I want to make an 85mm f/1.2 equivalent in APS-C I need 55mm f/1.0 lens. If I want to duplicate the A* 135mm f/1.8 I need a 90mm f/1.2. . It is perfectly valid. The larger the format the larger the lenses. Various formats are not equal. You get less DOF at the same aperture at the same magnification with larger formats. That is one of the drawback with larger formats. It is true that lenses for larger formats do not need to be as sharp those for smaller formats. But this is true only to a point. When the near future FF cameras will exceed 30mp you'll need som serious good opticts to make an advantage of it. Zoom lenses, which is 95% of lens sale, of adequate quality will be very expensive at this quality level. Especially if they are fast. Last edited by Pål Jensen; 12-09-2011 at 08:10 AM.

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12-09-2011, 07:20 AM	#1771
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by ogl It's just rumors and nothing else Oh well then, we can just add an 80 mp FF 645D to the list

12-09-2011, 07:54 AM	#1772
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by eddie1960 what no ff 645D And no 16 megapixel APS-H

12-09-2011, 08:09 AM	#1774
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by ogl 24 MP FF camera is planned to be launched in 2012. I will buy one promtly....

12-09-2011, 08:11 AM	#1775
Sinister Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Berlin Posts: 1,045	Originally posted by ogl Said by Pentax. Peter Fang says the same Strictly rumor: Pentax 35mm full-frame DSLR and APS-C EVIL to come in 2012: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review It seems to me - 2012 will be the year of THREE (at least) new cameras from Pentax in higher league (I mean APS-C, FF and EVIL). That made my heart jump! I am so looking forward to a Pentax FF - something I believed I would never be eager to have... but with my FA ltds, the game changed!

12-09-2011, 08:17 AM	#1776
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Sinister That made my heart jump! I am so looking forward to a Pentax FF - something I believed I would never be eager to have... but with my FA ltds, the game changed! Just remember that OGL's track record in the rumor department is not spotless I find 24mp to be more realistic for the next APS model; the K-3 perhaps?

12-09-2011, 08:23 AM	#1777
Sinister Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Berlin Posts: 1,045	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Just remember that OGL's track record in the rumor department is not spotless I find 24mp to be more realistic for the next APS model; the K-3 perhaps? I am not that involved in rumors. Just looking for what suits my hopes and expectations A 24mp APS would definetly not encourage me to upgrade from the K-5. I don't need more MP!

12-09-2011, 08:28 AM	#1778
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Pål Jensen It is perfectly valid. The larger the format the larger the lenses. Various formats are not equal. You get less DOF at the same aperture at the same magnification with larger formats. That is one of the drawback with larger formats. It is true that lenses for larger formats do not need to be as sharp those for smaller formats. But this is true only to a point. When the near future FF cameras will exceed 30mp you'll need som serious good opticts to make an advantage of it. Zoom lenses, which is 95% of lens sale, of adequate quality will be very expensive at this quality level. Especially if they are fast. And with APS-C also pushing 30MP with 1/2 the sensor size they will need even sharper lenses than those FF 30MP cameras to achieve the same result. There is no free lunch. You are better off taking a 32MP FF and cropping it in post to achieve the results of a 16MP APS-C because then you have the best of both worlds. And what will happen when we move to a technology that does not require a color/AA filter? We will have the equivalent of 100MP APS-C cameras. How do lenses stack up then?

12-09-2011, 08:38 AM	#1779
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 And no 16 megapixel APS-H You have 16 MP APS-C, why do you want APS-H?

12-09-2011, 08:41 AM	#1780
Spag Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Berlin Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 118	Originally posted by ogl You have 16 MP APS-C, why do you want APS-H? For auto-vignetting on all DA lenses

12-09-2011, 08:44 AM	#1781
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by ogl You have 16 MP APS-C, why do you want APS-H? Go back through the thread he's stated it a few times. for everyone except Ron this is a FF thread, for Ron it's an APSH thread 16mp h should out resolve c and provide closer to the true FOV on ff lenses. should be better noise wise as well. I doubt it will ever happen though despite the new Kodak sensor being made. It is the biggest you can make without complex tech like FF requires so there is a good arguement for it

12-09-2011, 08:45 AM	#1782
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Winder And with APS-C also pushing 30MP with 1/2 the sensor size they will need even sharper lenses than those FF 30MP cameras to achieve the same result. There is no free lunch. You are better off taking a 32MP FF and cropping it in post to achieve the results of a 16MP APS-C because then you have the best of both worlds. Almost... you'll need a 36 MP FF camera will give a 1.5 crop area of 16MP - but isn't 36MP exactly what rumors say about the new Sony FF sensors? A cool feature would be to implement some fancy mask in the viewfinder (lcd overlay?) which crops each DA lens to its individually recommended maximum image circle. (But even a 24mp FF gives you decent 1.5 crop images - at 10.7MP)

12-09-2011, 08:46 AM	#1783
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Spag For auto-vignetting on all DA lenses aside from the wides there would be no vignetting on H, most will work on ff for that matter. but 21 and wider will be problematic (including wider than 21 on the zooms) solvable by an auto crop function in camera as it would be on FF

12-09-2011, 08:49 AM	#1784
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by gazonk Almost... you'll need a 36 MP FF camera will give a 1.5 crop area of 16MP - but isn't 36MP exactly what rumors say about the new Sony FF sensors? A cool feature would be to implement some fancy mask in the viewfinder (lcd overlay?) which crops each DA lens to its individually recommended maximum image circle. (But even a 24mp FF gives you decent 1.5 crop images - at 10.7MP) Sony is rumoured to have 2 new Ff sensors in the pipeline a 24mp and a 36mp. and 3 new FF cameras one of which will be MILC/NEX To bad they think like an electronics company rather than a photographers company like Pentax (and Nikon for that matter) If Pentax has the same sensor as the sony it likely will outperform the sony....and have the best UI

12-09-2011, 09:01 AM	#1785
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Pål Jensen It is perfectly valid. The larger the format the larger the lenses. Various formats are not equal. You get less DOF at the same aperture at the same magnification with larger formats. That is one of the drawback with larger formats. really! Actually it's one of the *benefits* of the larger format. You can always stop down to match the aps-c DOF if you need to, you can't always go the other way. This is why it's more accurately described as 'more DOF control', not 'less DOF'. Quote: It is true that lenses for larger formats do not need to be as sharp those for smaller formats. But this is true only to a point. When the near future FF cameras will exceed 30mp you'll need som serious good opticts to make an advantage of it. Zoom lenses, Even more so when aps-c hits 24mp! .