Pentax Full Frame - An official statement from Pentax (they listened!)

Jodokast96 · 06-23-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by zosxavius

Canikon is a huge juggernaut that pros turn to for good reason... they have full frame.

But the question is: Do the pros use them because the are FF, or simply because they won't offer that same performance in an APS-C cam? Performance being the same, would all that many care?

mattdm · 06-23-2012, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Jodokast96

But the question is: Do the pros use them because the are FF, or simply because they won't offer that same performance in an APS-C cam? Performance being the same, would all that many care?

"Pros" use what works for the bottom line. For many, many types of professional photography, the Nikon D3200 looks pretty killer. (K-30 too.)

cbaytan · 06-23-2012, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Jodokast96

But the question is: Do the pros use them because the are FF, or simply because they won't offer that same performance in an APS-C cam? Performance being the same, would all that many care?

Here is the main deal: shallower DOF:

FF vs. APS-C: DOF | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Oh yes, and better Signal/Noise ratio on FF cameras, they gather more light, because of the bigger sensor. Not to mention FF yields bigger print sizes with same pixel size with APS-C.

ElJamoquio · 06-23-2012, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

"Pros" use what works for the bottom line. For many, many types of professional photography, the Nikon D3200 looks pretty killer. (K-30 too.)

Dunno... in my experience most 'pros' are portrait-takers because that's what pays. A 85mm f/1.4 + D3200 might be 'good enough' but a 85mm f/1.8 + D700 will have much higher resolution and shallower DOF possibilities. Of course it's all about the out-of-focus quality and for that the f/1.8 isn't all that great.

Anvh · 06-23-2012, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by cbaytan

Here is the main deal: shallower DOF:

FF vs. APS-C: DOF | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Oh yes, and better Signal/Noise ratio on FF cameras, they gather more light, because of the bigger sensor. Not to mention FF yields bigger print sizes with same pixel size with APS-C.

Actually the extra light gathering/iso preformance is almost factored out by 2 things, APS-C sensors are often 1 generation ahead of FF while P&S are 1 generation ahead of APS-C. Then 2, the "smaller" DOF with FF means you need to stop down more meaning less light will fall on the sensor, so you need to little extra.

Anvh · 06-23-2012, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Dunno... in my experience most 'pros' are portrait-takers because that's what pays. A 85mm f/1.4 + D3200 might be 'good enough' but a 85mm f/1.8 + D700 will have much higher resolution and shallower DOF possibilities. Of course it's all about the out-of-focus quality and for that the f/1.8 isn't all that great.

Strange comparison and actually the D3200 will have a shallower DOF in your example if the focus distance is the same.
Anyway in this situation the D3200 will probably use the 50mm f/1.2 which probably will come close to the DOF of the 85mm f/1.8

**Aristophanes** · 06-23-2012, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

"Pros" use what works for the bottom line. For many, many types of professional photography, the Nikon D3200 looks pretty killer. (K-30 too.)

I know 2 PJ's well and both primarily use APS-C cameras, with one having his equipment supplied by his employer.

Take a look at paparazzi troupes and see what cameras they use. Lots of APS-C for added tele.

There is no consensus in the pro market over sensor size.

Chex · 06-24-2012, 11:40 AM

If any Paparazzi tried a D800 I'm sure they would prefer that to the so-called "added tele" crop factor of an APS-C... crop your shots later, get the shot first.

Anvh · 06-24-2012, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Chex

If any Paparazzi tried a D800 I'm sure they would prefer that to the so-called "added tele" crop factor of an APS-C... crop your shots later, get the shot first.

Depends on how much running he does

JohnLegrand · 06-24-2012, 01:00 PM

I think anybody would prefer a fullframe because it just makes better pictures. Thats why this Thread has 188 pages

RonHendriks1966 · 06-24-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by JohnLegrand

I think anybody would prefer a fullframe because it just makes better pictures. Thats why this Thread has 188 pages

I see again an APS-H name-drop oppertunity

JohnLegrand · 06-24-2012, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I see again an APS-H name-drop oppertunity

Whats that? APS-HULK sensor?

rawr · 06-24-2012, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Chex

If any Paparazzi tried a D800 I'm sure they would prefer that

Paparazzi are like sports photogs shooting a game - they want fast fps, quick processing turnaround, and quick transmission of the images back to base, in addition to conventionally useful features like good low-light and good lens reach. They don't want huge file sizes and slow fps, and don't need amazing resolution and image quality.

So I don't expect to see many paps using D800's (or Phase One's or Hasselblads) anytime soon.

Chex · 06-24-2012, 05:43 PM

Well I guess Paparazzi would love the D4 or 1Dx then... Bursts away!
But they also need half decent AF.. and not many APS-C camera's AF systems can hold a candle to good FF camera AF systems..

rawr · 06-24-2012, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Chex

and not many APS-C camera's AF systems can hold a candle to good FF camera AF systems..

True enough. But sensor size and AF quality and performance aren't really connected.

Big-boy FF systems like the D4 or 1D's of the world get great AF because they are top-tier pro tools crammed with all the best AF tech, not because FF makes AF any more effective than on APS-C (or micro-4/3 etc).

06-23-2012, 03:44 PM	#2808
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by Jodokast96 But the question is: Do the pros use them because the are FF, or simply because they won't offer that same performance in an APS-C cam? Performance being the same, would all that many care? Here is the main deal: shallower DOF: FF vs. APS-C: DOF \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Oh yes, and better Signal/Noise ratio on FF cameras, they gather more light, because of the bigger sensor. Not to mention FF yields bigger print sizes with same pixel size with APS-C. Last edited by cbaytan; 06-23-2012 at 03:48 PM. Reason: add info

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06-23-2012, 02:46 PM	#2806
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	Originally posted by zosxavius Canikon is a huge juggernaut that pros turn to for good reason... they have full frame. But the question is: Do the pros use them because the are FF, or simply because they won't offer that same performance in an APS-C cam? Performance being the same, would all that many care?

06-23-2012, 03:11 PM	#2807
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by Jodokast96 But the question is: Do the pros use them because the are FF, or simply because they won't offer that same performance in an APS-C cam? Performance being the same, would all that many care? "Pros" use what works for the bottom line. For many, many types of professional photography, the Nikon D3200 looks pretty killer. (K-30 too.)

06-23-2012, 04:41 PM	#2809
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by mattdm "Pros" use what works for the bottom line. For many, many types of professional photography, the Nikon D3200 looks pretty killer. (K-30 too.) Dunno... in my experience most 'pros' are portrait-takers because that's what pays. A 85mm f/1.4 + D3200 might be 'good enough' but a 85mm f/1.8 + D700 will have much higher resolution and shallower DOF possibilities. Of course it's all about the out-of-focus quality and for that the f/1.8 isn't all that great.

06-23-2012, 06:21 PM	#2810
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by cbaytan Here is the main deal: shallower DOF: FF vs. APS-C: DOF \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Oh yes, and better Signal/Noise ratio on FF cameras, they gather more light, because of the bigger sensor. Not to mention FF yields bigger print sizes with same pixel size with APS-C. Actually the extra light gathering/iso preformance is almost factored out by 2 things, APS-C sensors are often 1 generation ahead of FF while P&S are 1 generation ahead of APS-C. Then 2, the "smaller" DOF with FF means you need to stop down more meaning less light will fall on the sensor, so you need to little extra.

06-23-2012, 06:25 PM	#2811
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Dunno... in my experience most 'pros' are portrait-takers because that's what pays. A 85mm f/1.4 + D3200 might be 'good enough' but a 85mm f/1.8 + D700 will have much higher resolution and shallower DOF possibilities. Of course it's all about the out-of-focus quality and for that the f/1.8 isn't all that great. Strange comparison and actually the D3200 will have a shallower DOF in your example if the focus distance is the same. Anyway in this situation the D3200 will probably use the 50mm f/1.2 which probably will come close to the DOF of the 85mm f/1.8

06-23-2012, 07:36 PM	#2812
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by mattdm "Pros" use what works for the bottom line. For many, many types of professional photography, the Nikon D3200 looks pretty killer. (K-30 too.) I know 2 PJ's well and both primarily use APS-C cameras, with one having his equipment supplied by his employer. Take a look at paparazzi troupes and see what cameras they use. Lots of APS-C for added tele. There is no consensus in the pro market over sensor size.

06-24-2012, 11:40 AM	#2813
Chex Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The 'Stoke, British Columbia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,678	If any Paparazzi tried a D800 I'm sure they would prefer that to the so-called "added tele" crop factor of an APS-C... crop your shots later, get the shot first.

06-24-2012, 12:23 PM	#2814
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Chex If any Paparazzi tried a D800 I'm sure they would prefer that to the so-called "added tele" crop factor of an APS-C... crop your shots later, get the shot first. Depends on how much running he does

06-24-2012, 01:00 PM	#2815
JohnLegrand Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 29	I think anybody would prefer a fullframe because it just makes better pictures. Thats why this Thread has 188 pages

06-24-2012, 01:41 PM	#2816
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by JohnLegrand I think anybody would prefer a fullframe because it just makes better pictures. Thats why this Thread has 188 pages I see again an APS-H name-drop oppertunity

06-24-2012, 02:41 PM	#2817
JohnLegrand Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 29	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I see again an APS-H name-drop oppertunity Whats that? APS-HULK sensor?

06-24-2012, 03:22 PM	#2818
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Chex If any Paparazzi tried a D800 I'm sure they would prefer that Paparazzi are like sports photogs shooting a game - they want fast fps, quick processing turnaround, and quick transmission of the images back to base, in addition to conventionally useful features like good low-light and good lens reach. They don't want huge file sizes and slow fps, and don't need amazing resolution and image quality. So I don't expect to see many paps using D800's (or Phase One's or Hasselblads) anytime soon.

06-24-2012, 05:43 PM	#2819
Chex Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The 'Stoke, British Columbia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,678	Well I guess Paparazzi would love the D4 or 1Dx then... Bursts away! But they also need half decent AF.. and not many APS-C camera's AF systems can hold a candle to good FF camera AF systems..

06-24-2012, 07:55 PM	#2820
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Chex and not many APS-C camera's AF systems can hold a candle to good FF camera AF systems.. True enough. But sensor size and AF quality and performance aren't really connected. Big-boy FF systems like the D4 or 1D's of the world get great AF because they are top-tier pro tools crammed with all the best AF tech, not because FF makes AF any more effective than on APS-C (or micro-4/3 etc).